Infinite Space and Time...How?

rush
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21 years 10 months ago #4473 by rush

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Dummy:

After all, isn't everything physical just different variations of energy? Therefore, couldn't you just say that everything that physically exists is simply some form of energy?

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I agree that everything is just different configurations of energy.

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Just because energy's existence is infinite does NOT mean that its bi-products are infinite also. Meaning, space exists only because it is a bi-product creation of energy through the existence of matter, which is just another form of energy, the energy itself is infinite but the "space" is NOT.
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Space is just how energy is distributed. It does not exist without matter. That becomes a semantic problem when we start to talk about infinities but, if energy is "infinite" so is space.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>What if there is a boundary of the universe and it is a reflective convex dome and it makes things appear to be endless because the light keeps reflecting back and forth.
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Putting a boundary for the Universe as a whole is NON-SENSICAL. Do you have any observations to support your idea?

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Line up several mirrors around yourself and tell me how many of you there are. Just so you don't confuse yourself I'll tell you right now that physically there is only 1 of you. 10,000 galaxies could soon start to look like 1,000,000,000 galaxies, and if there are 1,000,000,000 there must be an infinite potential! Right?
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No.

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rush
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21 years 10 months ago #4891 by rush

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Dummy:

Yes, I can imagine absolute nothingness outside of the universe.
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Actually, you can imagine whatever you want. Can you show me that nothingness does exist?

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Why does something have to be outside? Think of it this way, if you are in the center of the earth what is inward from there?
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That is for sure not a good analogy.

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I think the BB model makes a lot of sense, I think people just look at it wrong and draw inaccurate conclusions. For example, people seem to thing the Big Bang came out of nothing and then say things like "no creation ex nihilo". If the Big Bang was simply some huge form of energy changing properties then it is not creation "ex nihilo" it is creation by transformation. It's not something new that magically appeared out of nowhere, it's the same as it was just in a different form. Example: Me, Myself, and I are all one-in-the same.
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You can assume that the Big-Bang was not the beggining of the Universe (but it is not what big-bang theoretical think, they really think that that was the beggining). But you still have a problem because space would be expading into nothingness, with is rather illogic. And that sucks to hear it from cosmologists.

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Stick to the BB theory, it DOES make the most sense if you look at it using common sense and good clear logic.
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Explain me how can space are expanding into nothingness? Non-sensical...completely non-sensical because space can not expand without matter. Space does not exist as thing therefore it can not be expanding alone.

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Mac
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21 years 10 months ago #4892 by Mac

Replied by Mac on topic Reply from Dan McCoin

This is not meant to demean anyones view; however, what I have seen here is laughable. I am seeing great minds collapse in on themselves instead of expand.

The very idea that if the universe were infinite that there is something beyond the boundry is unwarranted and shows limited vision.

We aren't talking about an egg here gentlemen. There is no shell or boundry. That is a simplistic view. But the universe can be bounded and NOT infinite far easiser than it could be infinite.

Perhaps rush you can tell us "what is there if there is no time or space?" Seems to me it forms a boundry and there is no place for there to exist nothing.

My view of gravity is supportable mathematically. But that doesn't prove the theory, so I'm not going to push that here. However, when our testing is completed, I will take a slightly firmer stance on this (and todate the data is confirming what we wanted to see).

For should our view be supported then mathematically the Universe MUST be finite otherwise there are many functions which could not have variables such as gravity.

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rush
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21 years 10 months ago #4498 by rush

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Dummy:
Quite the contrary Rush, nothingness does NOT and CANNOT exist. If it existed then it would be something.
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Yes, nothingness does not exist and can not exist. Therefore, the Universe can not have boundaries with something that does not exist.

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Why is this not a good analogy? What is further inward from the center?
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First because probably there is no actual center. There are unreachable scales in there. But if even it was, you could be at the center of the Earth but beyond the surface of the Earth there is atmosphere, beyond atmosphere there are the moon, planets, stars,galaxies, and so far. That would no imply that the Universe has boundaries.

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Dummy:
Wrong! I would agree that the BB was the beginning. What if the Big Bang was a transformation of energy into matter(E=mc2)? The BB was an explosion OF space and time that sent matter(something) into nothingness at light speed for billions of years creating the universe inside of it, like a balloon expanding. We live on the inside. Perhaps one day the mass will begin to revert back into energy and the universe will collapse inward converting itself back into energy causing the "Big End".
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You say BB was the beginning, but from where did come that energy to "transform" into matter? If it was always there, then that was not the beginning. Also, again, it is non-sensical to explode "space and time" into nothingness because nothingness does not exist. How can something explode into something that does not exist? Also, exploding space and time before put matter into it is absolute science fiction because space and time does not exist without matter.

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Dummy:
Energy and mass are one-in-the same thing. If energy transformed into mass then b-i-n-g-o! now you have space.
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So obviously. That energy was always there?

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Dummy:
If energy continued to transform into mass then you would have an expanding universe, if the space is expanding then the things inside would begin pushing away from each other.
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"Expading space" does happen only in your mind. Space is not a thing to expand alone. Even if the matter in the Universe was expanding, it would still be non-sensical because it would require creation of matter all the time because it would be expanding into nothingness, that is something that does not exist! Can't you see the fantasy that you are talking about?

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rush
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21 years 10 months ago #4499 by rush

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Maggo, you say that "energy is eternal". So that energy was always there since an infinity time in the past? If so, space also was always there by an infinity amount of time. If you admit that there was an infinity space and time in the past why you insist that it is impossible to have an infinite space and time to the future?

Also, you clearly avoid the problem of "expanding into nothingness".

How can something be expanding into something that does not exist? How can space expanding alone? I think you are reading to much science fiction.

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rush
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21 years 10 months ago #4839 by rush

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Maggo:
Energy requires no space, without space there is no time. Space and time only came along when the energy started transforming into matter, matter requires space.
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Completely wrong. Without space and time we can not have energy. There is no fundamental difference between matter and energy. If matter requires space and time to exist, so does energy.

Stop to talk about science fiction!

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Magoo:
It doesn't expand INTO, it simply just expands, there is nothing for it to expand "INTO". Picture, if you can, an empty balloon. Think of the air outside as if it were "nothing", when the balloon expands it creates space inside everything outside would still be "nothing".
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Wrong and Innacurate analogy. A ballon only expands because there is air, there are space and there are time to expand. So, when a balloon expands it DOES NOT "creates" space because space was always inside AND outside the ballon.

When you talk about an Universe expanding, you MUST have to consider that space, time and energy (matter) are being created from nothing all the time because there are no space, no time and no energy in "nothingness".

(Energy is eternal or not? "Eternal" involves time)

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