tidal effects

Ok I'll explain my thinking on this detail. First of all a tide is a tide weather or not a solid or liquid or gas is involved- mass is mass and force is force. Newton did not agree that a third power was correct I don't believe and Jefferies is a hacker at best. I know everyone uses this third power law but that means nothing other than everyone is wrong in doing that. As to my view on the moon alone causing tides that was a hard thing to discover and I almost didn't figure that out at all. I don't know if you would call any of the above thinking so if you wish to kick it around please don't get all rattled. Ask simple questions and sometimes doors open that are not even known to exist.

I did the calculation assuming the sun is 160 times as forceful as the moon as far as the Earth goes. The way I would explain why the moon causes tides and not the sun is that the Earth is in free fall with respect to the sun and all the mass of Earth is falling at nearly the same rate into the gravity field of the sun. The moon is in free fall into the sun also and is in free fall more or less into the Earth. In response to the force the moon exerts resisting the gravity of Earth causes the tidal reaction. The spring and neap tide will be the same in solid or liquid or gas, however. I have to leave now the place is closing.

From Webster's online dictionary:

spring tide - noun - a tide of greater-than-average range around the times of new and full moon
neap tide - noun - a tide of minimum range occurring at the first and the third quarters of the moon

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Let's see, tides get bigger when the moon and the sun are in line, and tides get smaller when the moon and the sun are in quadrature. This is a classic example of an interference pattern between TWO (2) signals. One from Luna, and one from ...

(Doesn't your ignorance ever embarrass you? You obviously have the interest; why won't you learn?)

The facts are clear enough. My ignorance does not overly embarrass me. Keep on explaining your views, LB. How do you get the relation of spring and neap tides to match the data? If you can I would like read anything comments you post on this detail. And if there is something I should or could learn I'm willing to consider anything that makes sense.

[Jim] "The facts are clear enough."

So it would seem.

[Jim] "How do you get the relation of spring and neap tides to match the data?"

??? It just falls into your lap.

Hmmm.
Do you understand the astronomical implications of the definitions?
Do you understand interference patterns in periodic phenomena?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />"How do you get the relation of spring and neap tides to match the data?"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Tides can be simple or complex, depending on the depth of your interest and experience. You can estimate the times of high and low tides every day to good accuracy by simply computing the positions of the Sun and Moon relative to the observer on the rotatong Earth.

But for predicting at the state of the art, one must recognize that the horizontal (flow) component is more important than the vertical (lift) component for ocean tides, and that h-component must be integrated over time. Moreover, as ocean-sized masses of water flow, water piles up against shorelines. So the shapes of the shorelines matter also. When you have a wide-mouth bay collecting lots of flowing ocean and chanelling it all into a narrow river, as at the Bay of Fundy in Nova Scotia, normal tides of a few feet can be amplified to dozens of feet. In extreme cases, when the Sun and Moon are aligned (as when eclipses occur), the swing can be 50 feet at the Bay of Fundy -- the highest tides in the world. (But note that the presence of the Sun adding to the Moon effect is required to get maximum tides.)

Beyond that, Fergus Wood has studied tidal amplification effects. He charts "super-tides" that produce destructive coastal flooding when a lunar perigee occurs near to a solar-lunar syzygy (alignment) and is amplified by offshore winds. See Fergus J. Wood., "Tidal Dynamics: Coastal Flooding, and Cycles of Gravitational Force" D. Ridel Publishing Co., Dordrect, 1986, 558p.

Or don't look any further if your mind is already made up. Researching with the purpose of bolstering an idea already believed can have the undesireable side-effect of turning up evidence that undermines the belief. And that can be upsetting, not to mention annoying. -|Tom|-