- Thank you received: 0
Stellar Splitting and pairing NEW Black holes foun
16 years 3 months ago #20330
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
Hi Jim, that's an extremely difficult question to answer. Though I have to say that it's the politics of it which cause me the most confusion. The blue eyed boys and girls of CERN are being rather canny about what they are up to. Lots of talk about becs; which I think is good; lots of talk about quantum entanglement producing "instantaneous" "events" of about thirty thousand times c; not so good! Then we have a whole bunch of experiments for the new machine to do with slow light. Then we have a great deal of talk about the lorentzian as it applies to gauge theory, note that Einstein hardly gets a mention though.
Walk into a room, clap your hands and say, "this is cool! Newton was right about the speed of gravity, Einstein was wrong but we still need to use the lorentzian, only now we are talking about vast amounts of gravitational energy." This might go down well with the general public. It won't go down well with funding bodies. They will immediately realise that their political enemies will raise a stink about the huge amounts of taxpayer's money that have been spent.
Raising the question, what would Newton have made of the lorentzian, is basically a political one. We can write the lorentzian in terms of refractive index. We get a very large number. So we write it up as (1 - 1 /n)^nx / 2 Pop back in a time machine to where Newton is sitting under his apple tree and show him the equation. He wouldn't jump up and say, wow! This is an equation thats older than tea.
Newton thought that the speed of gravity had to be infinite, that didn't mean that he liked it one jot. He loathed and detested it, he spent most of his life wrestling with the problem. (I once got an e mail form an otherwise clever man, saying that Newton lived in a time of sailing ships and horses. He didnt know that the speed of light was so fast, so he made the mistake of thinking gravity had to be instantaneous. Yeah right on, the inventor of calculus loses the plot someplace)
It's not a question of what would newton have said but what did he say? He could not have avoided looking at this equation, or a slight variant. He's looking at that number n as it approaches infinity. The idea that he didn't write a note about it vis a vis his gravity problem, is just too absurd for words. Somewhere in his notes, gathering dust at Oxford, is potential gold dust.
Back to the question: electromagnetic mass is anything up to the speed of light, gravitational mass is anything beyond that. So how can we deduce anything from something that by definition we cannot even see?
The first point is that we must have some idea of just how fast the speed of gravity is. On this board we say that it's at least twenty billion times c. I say its faster, I say that h = c^2 / b^2 where b is the speed of gravity.
This speed of gravity gives us a gravitational energy value for an electron, lets say, which is equal to its electromagnetic frequency! Thats rather neat.
The gravitational lorentzian will barely register any mass increase at the speed of light. Not that I believe this happens anyway. What we would have is a redistribution of potential and kinetic energy.
We store energy in a particle by making it spin. An electron's angular velocity is c and its angular momentum is h. Its radius is the Compton wavelength. Its gravitational energy needs to be stored someplace, we store it inside the Schwarzschild radius; note that everything has a Schwarzschild radius. This energy will have an angular velocity of b and an angular momentum of 1 (the number one to allow frequency matching, changes are going to be changes in wavelength) To stop it from imploding we give it a negative refractive index. The energy profile is now a w shape rather than a v shape. To then stop it from exploding we surround it by displacement particles, call them the higgs or call them vacuum lattice aether particles. These are going to be inside out. Their electromagnetic mass is going to be at the Schwarzschild radius.
There will be some gravitational mass that shows up, we simply cannot see the rest, because its inside of a neg r.i. volume. We want E = 1/2 m'c^2 + 1/2m"b^2 The gravitational mass, seen, will then be m = 6.03E-64 = electron mass times h. Now that mass is the rest mass of a compton wavelength photon.
One last word. Inside the Schwarzschild radius of a sun, there's a negative refractive index; that's if I'm right about all this; It won't behave like a spherical lens. It will behave like a concave lens. Rotate a planet round this sun and well have a core shape that looks like a discarded apple core. The north and south top faces of this wouldn't be black holes but they would have odd properties.
Walk into a room, clap your hands and say, "this is cool! Newton was right about the speed of gravity, Einstein was wrong but we still need to use the lorentzian, only now we are talking about vast amounts of gravitational energy." This might go down well with the general public. It won't go down well with funding bodies. They will immediately realise that their political enemies will raise a stink about the huge amounts of taxpayer's money that have been spent.
Raising the question, what would Newton have made of the lorentzian, is basically a political one. We can write the lorentzian in terms of refractive index. We get a very large number. So we write it up as (1 - 1 /n)^nx / 2 Pop back in a time machine to where Newton is sitting under his apple tree and show him the equation. He wouldn't jump up and say, wow! This is an equation thats older than tea.
Newton thought that the speed of gravity had to be infinite, that didn't mean that he liked it one jot. He loathed and detested it, he spent most of his life wrestling with the problem. (I once got an e mail form an otherwise clever man, saying that Newton lived in a time of sailing ships and horses. He didnt know that the speed of light was so fast, so he made the mistake of thinking gravity had to be instantaneous. Yeah right on, the inventor of calculus loses the plot someplace)
It's not a question of what would newton have said but what did he say? He could not have avoided looking at this equation, or a slight variant. He's looking at that number n as it approaches infinity. The idea that he didn't write a note about it vis a vis his gravity problem, is just too absurd for words. Somewhere in his notes, gathering dust at Oxford, is potential gold dust.
Back to the question: electromagnetic mass is anything up to the speed of light, gravitational mass is anything beyond that. So how can we deduce anything from something that by definition we cannot even see?
The first point is that we must have some idea of just how fast the speed of gravity is. On this board we say that it's at least twenty billion times c. I say its faster, I say that h = c^2 / b^2 where b is the speed of gravity.
This speed of gravity gives us a gravitational energy value for an electron, lets say, which is equal to its electromagnetic frequency! Thats rather neat.
The gravitational lorentzian will barely register any mass increase at the speed of light. Not that I believe this happens anyway. What we would have is a redistribution of potential and kinetic energy.
We store energy in a particle by making it spin. An electron's angular velocity is c and its angular momentum is h. Its radius is the Compton wavelength. Its gravitational energy needs to be stored someplace, we store it inside the Schwarzschild radius; note that everything has a Schwarzschild radius. This energy will have an angular velocity of b and an angular momentum of 1 (the number one to allow frequency matching, changes are going to be changes in wavelength) To stop it from imploding we give it a negative refractive index. The energy profile is now a w shape rather than a v shape. To then stop it from exploding we surround it by displacement particles, call them the higgs or call them vacuum lattice aether particles. These are going to be inside out. Their electromagnetic mass is going to be at the Schwarzschild radius.
There will be some gravitational mass that shows up, we simply cannot see the rest, because its inside of a neg r.i. volume. We want E = 1/2 m'c^2 + 1/2m"b^2 The gravitational mass, seen, will then be m = 6.03E-64 = electron mass times h. Now that mass is the rest mass of a compton wavelength photon.
One last word. Inside the Schwarzschild radius of a sun, there's a negative refractive index; that's if I'm right about all this; It won't behave like a spherical lens. It will behave like a concave lens. Rotate a planet round this sun and well have a core shape that looks like a discarded apple core. The north and south top faces of this wouldn't be black holes but they would have odd properties.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
16 years 3 months ago #20331
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Sloat, Ok is think I understand to mass stuff now-hanks. As for the speed of gravity it might help somewhat to remember gravity and energy are not in any way similar. Gravity is a force or mass and energy is equivalent mass not a force. Force and energy get mixed up in models. I wish force was introduced to QM it would be a good thing if QM guys looked at force rather than math concepts.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
16 years 3 months ago #20233
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
I sometimes think of qm as relativity's younger brother, it supports its big brother but sometimes let's slip that there are tensions. They support the idea that gravity is not a force but is down to space time curvature. Then they look at the masses of the tiny things they look at and say that space time is flat in this region. That allows them to ignore gravity altogether. We don't have a good understanding of gravity at either the cosmic scale or the micro scale.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- cosmicsurfer
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
16 years 3 months ago #15406
by cosmicsurfer
Replied by cosmicsurfer on topic Reply from John Rickey
I would agree with that Stoat. We really are lost in our understanding of energy and where it comes from.....I see so much free energy around from graviton decaying orbits that I think we really do not have a clue as too how steep this energy gradient really is and that is why plasmas are so intense in providing huge power outputs. Captured gravitons, magnetic fields, graviton flipping, antimatter induction it all goes back to completing a circuit. You are correct about neg r.i and graviton mass existing above light speed. John
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
16 years 3 months ago #20763
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Does QM even consider force? Asking about this I was told the Hamiltonian supercedes the force concept. It seems to me QM would benefit from the reintroduction of force although funding for huge projects to search for details predicted by the current perspective might be effected. I like to use force in the energy details like photon force rather than photon energy.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
16 years 3 months ago #15409
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
Hi Jim and Cosmic, two interesting posts there. it got me thinking about the germ of an idea. Very rough at the moment but perhaps Leo might have some thoughts on the Hamiltonian as used in qm.
Ive said that weve got E = 1/2m'c^2 + 1/2m"b^2 thats a state of balance, half kinetic, half potential. Because the speed of gravity is so much faster than the speed of light, that mass m" is knocked right down to what I believe is the rest mass of a Compton wavelength photon. At the moment its written in its kinetic energy form so lets change that to 1/2kx^2 That has to be equal to mgh. (Note here that h is simply the height in some force field and not plancks constant)
Kick that round a bit and see what we get mgh = 1/2kx^2 That can give us 2mg / h^-1 x^2 Change that h into a radius and we have something that looks like the classic 2GM /rc^2 but has b,the speed of gravity in place of c, the speed of light.
2GM / rb^2 = k = 1 - c^2 / b^2
The thing is, with our energy profile being shaped like a w, rather than a v, we would have two routes to complete cosmmics circuit. Equal action means that we can go up and down the slope of the w, a slope that is light years deep, or we can simply step across between the points. Both would do exactly the same amount of work.
Actually I dont think this is quite true. I think vacuum energy is trying to crush our particle out of existence but can't because the particle has a core of almost equal energy pressure. I think there's a tiny over pressure in the electron, equal to the rest mass of a photon.
Right back to the hamiltonian in qm. What I dont understand, is if we are dealing with particles as points, and yet we need to deal with potential energies, and we cant say where something actually is, how can we work out any potential energy?
(Edited) A sudden thought about this. From the above we get the rest mass of a compton wavelength photon as being the mass of an electon times planck's constant.
If two of these photons hit each other, they can create an electron positron pair. I would argue that they have to hit plumb on centre, otherwise their cores can miss each other, and it's only here that the energy to create two particles hangs about.
If we have this one rest mass for all photons, then it needs to lose energy, it's a soft gamma ray after all. Perhaps this is where the lagrangian comes in.
Ive said that weve got E = 1/2m'c^2 + 1/2m"b^2 thats a state of balance, half kinetic, half potential. Because the speed of gravity is so much faster than the speed of light, that mass m" is knocked right down to what I believe is the rest mass of a Compton wavelength photon. At the moment its written in its kinetic energy form so lets change that to 1/2kx^2 That has to be equal to mgh. (Note here that h is simply the height in some force field and not plancks constant)
Kick that round a bit and see what we get mgh = 1/2kx^2 That can give us 2mg / h^-1 x^2 Change that h into a radius and we have something that looks like the classic 2GM /rc^2 but has b,the speed of gravity in place of c, the speed of light.
2GM / rb^2 = k = 1 - c^2 / b^2
The thing is, with our energy profile being shaped like a w, rather than a v, we would have two routes to complete cosmmics circuit. Equal action means that we can go up and down the slope of the w, a slope that is light years deep, or we can simply step across between the points. Both would do exactly the same amount of work.
Actually I dont think this is quite true. I think vacuum energy is trying to crush our particle out of existence but can't because the particle has a core of almost equal energy pressure. I think there's a tiny over pressure in the electron, equal to the rest mass of a photon.
Right back to the hamiltonian in qm. What I dont understand, is if we are dealing with particles as points, and yet we need to deal with potential energies, and we cant say where something actually is, how can we work out any potential energy?
(Edited) A sudden thought about this. From the above we get the rest mass of a compton wavelength photon as being the mass of an electon times planck's constant.
If two of these photons hit each other, they can create an electron positron pair. I would argue that they have to hit plumb on centre, otherwise their cores can miss each other, and it's only here that the energy to create two particles hangs about.
If we have this one rest mass for all photons, then it needs to lose energy, it's a soft gamma ray after all. Perhaps this is where the lagrangian comes in.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.389 seconds