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16 years 3 months ago #20764
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Sloat, If all photons have the same mass how can they lose energy? The factor in flux is frequency of the photon and force not energy.
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16 years 3 months ago #15411
by cosmicsurfer
Replied by cosmicsurfer on topic Reply from John Rickey
Hi Jim and Stoat, lots of good information here that needs to be studied. Since we live in the forward time portion of motion we can only see matter as a dominate structure and it is only when we observe sub-scale photon generated matter and antimatter that we get even a hint of how our large scale paired motion operates. What we fail to understand is how the graviton cycle maintains a constant source for powering ongoing mass regeneration. A photon rest mass is interacting with this power source and so are all of the elements of matter. Okay, so where is the excess energy going that is spinning off of all mass? Maybe it is being flipped into antigravitons and is slightly out of phase with forward time matter frequencies as being produced by the reverse time antimatter radiations. Fermi lab measured heart beat of Universe in flipping state of Mesons at three trillion times per second between matter and antimatter. FTL neg r.i. regions operate in concert with this quantum state that are not observable. John
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16 years 2 months ago #15414
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
Hi Jim, I just don't follow you there. Suppose you went into a shop that sold loose electrons. The guy at the till says, cheap ones over there, expensive ones there. He explains that the cheap ones are only to nine decimal places, your purchase could be plus or minus a few billion photon masses. Buy the cheap one, a photon rest mass is ludicrously small compared to an electron's mass.
We need to take the e.m. mass and balance it against grav mass. So first we'll look at the electron E = mc^2, that's
9.1093897E-31 * 8.98755178737E 16 = 8.18711116801E-14J
Now let's do the same for what I think is the speed of gravity
9.1093897E-31 *1.35639139448E 50 = 1.2355897798E 20J
So what's the e.m mass equivalent of the gravitational energy?
1.2355897798E 20 / c^2 = 1.37477903775E 03 That's over a tonne!!! But we only see one h / 2 of that energy in our e.m space. 4.55469484999E-31 half the electrons mass.
So, we've got to stash that, over a tonne, away inside of our electron. The obvious place to put it is inside the Schwartzchild radius. We need to work that out,
r = 2GM / c^2 = 1.35260912107E-57 metres. That's the top of our w shaped energy curve. It might be worth noting here that we have to keep in mind that that radius will be a lot smaller again for the speed of gravity, 8.96249015818E-91 metres.
Right, we did the sums to find out the balance state of the electron. All that peeks out from the centre of our w shaped energy profile is 6.03595039111E-64 kg. We still need to work out the radius of the e.m. electron. That's Lambda = h / mc
2.42631060001E-12 metres, the Compton wavelength.
In qm it will be stated that the electron, as point charge, is somewhere in that sphere of radius 2.42631060001E-12. I say that that is the actual e.m radius of the electron and the point will be the radius of 8.96249015818E-91 metres, where its grav mass lives. The thing is, that this electron is light years deep. It has a minute gravitational force at its e.m edge but its real mass is concentrated at a tiny point, which is ever so far away from the e.m. edge.
Now we need to look at this photon rest mass of 6.03595039111E-64 kg. What's its radius? Again, Lambda = h / mc = 3.66176117373E 21 metres!!! What's its Swartzchild radius? 8.96249015818E-91 same as for the electron, I'm sure it does differ but only when we get to thousands of decimal places.
We want to balance it, as we did for the electron, though we know that this rest mass is by definition not in balance, it has to go at the speed of light. We get 1.99973315029E-97 kg.
So how's the trick pulled off? An electron goes off like a tiny supernova and releases 6.03595039111E-64 kg of e.m energy, it also releases grav energy, equal to one electron mass.
6.03595039111E-64 *1.35639139448E 50 = 8.18711116801E-14 Then divide that by c^2 to get the e.m equivalent mass of an electron. The vacuum. which has a structure of its own, can construct from this information a photon anywhere it's needed within the radius of the photon.
That radius is huge, 3.66176117373E 21 metres.
That I believe is only part of the trick. Lets go back to what I'll call Newton's banking system. It's a natural log curve. The curve looks the same for both positive and negative values of x. When x equals zero, the curve snaps to a horizontal line of y equals one.
Okay, with this banking system, everything gets a bank statement instantaneously. So its not like our system of banking where true compound interest is being worked out but you get your statements monthly. We say, on this board, that the speed of gravity is not instantaneous. Go for 20 billion times c, or go for my value of 1.16464217444E 25 metres per second.
In the last post I looked at the potential energy balancing act in terms of x. When x gets very close to zero things start to get interesting. A photon can leap across the
x = zero value, because its bank statements are coming in instalments of h. It can hop back and forth playing the bull and bear markets for ever.
We need to take the e.m. mass and balance it against grav mass. So first we'll look at the electron E = mc^2, that's
9.1093897E-31 * 8.98755178737E 16 = 8.18711116801E-14J
Now let's do the same for what I think is the speed of gravity
9.1093897E-31 *1.35639139448E 50 = 1.2355897798E 20J
So what's the e.m mass equivalent of the gravitational energy?
1.2355897798E 20 / c^2 = 1.37477903775E 03 That's over a tonne!!! But we only see one h / 2 of that energy in our e.m space. 4.55469484999E-31 half the electrons mass.
So, we've got to stash that, over a tonne, away inside of our electron. The obvious place to put it is inside the Schwartzchild radius. We need to work that out,
r = 2GM / c^2 = 1.35260912107E-57 metres. That's the top of our w shaped energy curve. It might be worth noting here that we have to keep in mind that that radius will be a lot smaller again for the speed of gravity, 8.96249015818E-91 metres.
Right, we did the sums to find out the balance state of the electron. All that peeks out from the centre of our w shaped energy profile is 6.03595039111E-64 kg. We still need to work out the radius of the e.m. electron. That's Lambda = h / mc
2.42631060001E-12 metres, the Compton wavelength.
In qm it will be stated that the electron, as point charge, is somewhere in that sphere of radius 2.42631060001E-12. I say that that is the actual e.m radius of the electron and the point will be the radius of 8.96249015818E-91 metres, where its grav mass lives. The thing is, that this electron is light years deep. It has a minute gravitational force at its e.m edge but its real mass is concentrated at a tiny point, which is ever so far away from the e.m. edge.
Now we need to look at this photon rest mass of 6.03595039111E-64 kg. What's its radius? Again, Lambda = h / mc = 3.66176117373E 21 metres!!! What's its Swartzchild radius? 8.96249015818E-91 same as for the electron, I'm sure it does differ but only when we get to thousands of decimal places.
We want to balance it, as we did for the electron, though we know that this rest mass is by definition not in balance, it has to go at the speed of light. We get 1.99973315029E-97 kg.
So how's the trick pulled off? An electron goes off like a tiny supernova and releases 6.03595039111E-64 kg of e.m energy, it also releases grav energy, equal to one electron mass.
6.03595039111E-64 *1.35639139448E 50 = 8.18711116801E-14 Then divide that by c^2 to get the e.m equivalent mass of an electron. The vacuum. which has a structure of its own, can construct from this information a photon anywhere it's needed within the radius of the photon.
That radius is huge, 3.66176117373E 21 metres.
That I believe is only part of the trick. Lets go back to what I'll call Newton's banking system. It's a natural log curve. The curve looks the same for both positive and negative values of x. When x equals zero, the curve snaps to a horizontal line of y equals one.
Okay, with this banking system, everything gets a bank statement instantaneously. So its not like our system of banking where true compound interest is being worked out but you get your statements monthly. We say, on this board, that the speed of gravity is not instantaneous. Go for 20 billion times c, or go for my value of 1.16464217444E 25 metres per second.
In the last post I looked at the potential energy balancing act in terms of x. When x gets very close to zero things start to get interesting. A photon can leap across the
x = zero value, because its bank statements are coming in instalments of h. It can hop back and forth playing the bull and bear markets for ever.
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16 years 2 months ago #20948
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Sloat, What did I post that you don't follow? I don't have any faith in electron theory so no point in my commenting on that detail. But, the photon is another matter which I think can be better understood if the force of the photon is retrofitted into QM.
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16 years 2 months ago #20236
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
Hi Jim, a particle of a certain rest mass can have energy due to how fast it's spinning and how fast its linear movement is.
I wondered if I could do Einstein's "trick" with the equation E = 1/2m'c^2 + 1/2m"b^2 Can't be done. We square it and talk about the rather dubious notion of a relativistic momentum. E^2 = 1/4 rho^2 c^2 + 1/4 m"^2 b^4
Although we end up with a grav mass of about 1E - 196 we cannot let that equal zero, without losing half of our electromagnetic energy.
I wondered if I could do Einstein's "trick" with the equation E = 1/2m'c^2 + 1/2m"b^2 Can't be done. We square it and talk about the rather dubious notion of a relativistic momentum. E^2 = 1/4 rho^2 c^2 + 1/4 m"^2 b^4
Although we end up with a grav mass of about 1E - 196 we cannot let that equal zero, without losing half of our electromagnetic energy.
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16 years 2 months ago #20237
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Sloat, I quit doing that kind of math. It goes no where. The force detail seems to be a matter you want to avoid-can I ask you why? I might learn something if you could explain why this is a strange concept.
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