Gravity Probe B

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />As I understand the view of gravity at this time it is a force that does not fit in very well in any models which is a problem in itself. Is this about how things stand now?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That would have been an accurate statement until the appearance of the book <i>Pushing Gravity</i> two years ago. PG was written by about 20 authors who collectively covered all aspects of gravity, and have raised it to the level of the best-understood force of nature in every detail. -|Tom|-

I would make an offer that gravitational waves propagate at c only. This is not to say that two planets for instance would not know each others location instantly. The two planets would have an x number of fundamental units each, and each unit has an extension from it's localized foci. That extension in this case would be what we might term a gravitational wave. The extension tails off as it propagate away from the foci of each unit. I.E. It's frequency gets red shifted (stretched) beyond our ability to detect. This does not mean that it can't act upon other units. Each unit consist of waves within it's single extension. The waves are not disconnected. Hence any action upon any wave within the extension is felt throughout.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
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<i>Originally posted by north</i>
<br />no "magic wand" here!![]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">One person's science is another person's magic. []

I still have no idea what gravity is from your rough description. What exactly makes Earth follow a curved path centered on the Sun instead of any other path?
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Ans: because of the Suns equatoial range of influence which extends all the way out to Pluto,which if i remember right is the one that actually that deveates from this influence by a few degrees,where the Suns influence starts to weaken.
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But more to the point, in the laboratory as well as in the solar system, the main gravitational force exerted by a body is independent of its own spin. Orbital speeds are a function of distance from primary, but not at all of the spin of the primary. So associating your still (to me) magical mechanism with spin is yet another magical (i.e., non-sequitur) step.
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Ans: but that was the point of looking at the,for now the solar system, from a fluid-dynamic point of view to me this would give a more detailed description,in 3D, of actually what is happening and why. also this has never been done before or thought of,so i wait until i hope in my life time this would be possible.now we could do this by hand but i think this task is enormously to complex to do this way.
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I understand the psychology of becoming convinced by one's own theory. It happens to everyone. But unless you can say something a whole lot clearer than the quoted message, I'd caution you to be much more self-critical. A good theoretician falsifies his/her own models without having to wait for feedback. -|Tom|-
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Ans: i would really like to do this completely on my own but i lack the formal knowledge and access to facilities to do so. this one of my biggest frustrations but not all of us,life being what it is,have these fortunate opportunities. so i would like to think that you'll bare with me.

also i never said it was written in stone,you made this assumption on your own i gave no hint of this whatsoever.if don't know me better than this by now than you have not being paying attention.

further i have contacted a prof. at the University of Southern Califonia and he agreed with me that fluid-dynamics anaylsis is the way to go and i discussed with him my ideas he said agreed with some of what i said but not all and i in turn agreed and disagreed with his ideas as well,blackholes for instance,but he still sees things from the standard model whereas i don't.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by north</i>
<br />because of the Suns equatoial range of influence...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">What causes the Sun's identical polar range of influence then? When spacecraft fly over the Sun's poles, they feel the same gravity and acceleration as when flying over the equator. Likewise, Uranus points its pole toward the other planets, yet has normal gravitational pull on them.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...which extends all the way out to Pluto,which if i remember right is the one that actually that deveates from this influence by a few degrees,where the Suns influence starts to weaken.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">There is nothing wrong with Pluto's orbit at this time. It is Neptune that has the deviations, not Pluto or any of the new discoveries well beyond Pluto. Yet even Neptune deviates by only a few arc seconds, thousands of times smaller tha "a few degrees". And the Sun's influence is inverse square with distance more-or-less to infinity. It does not "start to weaken" at any known distance, at least until you get to the range of kiloparsecs (millions of times the distance to Pluto).

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">that was the point of looking at the, for now the solar system, from a fluid-dynamic point of view to me this would give a more detailed description, in 3D, of actually what is happening and why.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">How so? <i>Pushing Gravity</i> gives a detailed description of what is happening with gravity and why. And it is a description that even grade school children easily understand. In your "fluid-dynamic point of view", I don't see even the beginnings of any possible connection to gravity. Do you?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">also this has never been done before or thought of<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Every conceivable gravity law has been thought about and tested over the last few centuries. Only one comes close to reality. And it doesn't depend on spin.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">now we could do this by hand but i think this task is enormously too complex to do this way.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Do what? We already have everything relevant that we need to disprove your idea, to the extent that you have formulated it (which is not well at all for my mind to grasp).

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">i would really like to do this completely on my own but i lack the formal knowledge and access to facilities to do so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Do what? You are being very vague on the specifics.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">i never said it was written in stone<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I'm happy to hear that, because writing it in stone would appear right now to be a great waste of chiseling energy. [}] -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by north</i>
<br />because of the Suns equatoial range of influence...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">What causes the Sun's identical polar range of influence then? When spacecraft fly over the Sun's poles, they feel the same gravity and acceleration as when flying over the equator. Likewise, Uranus points its pole toward the other planets, yet has normal gravitational pull on them.
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Ans: as i have said before at the poles i see it as where jet action comes in,and depending on the spin of the solar mass there maybe no difference between the equator or the poles.

Uranus, actually from the pictorial that i have the poles are pointing in the direction of it's orbit,it's north or south pole is not pointing towards the Earth or Sun. never said that my way of looking at gravity would change the way things are,they are as they are.just looked at gravity from a different perspective right or wrong.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">...which extends all the way out to Pluto,which if i remember right is the one that actually that deveates from this influence by a few degrees,where the Suns influence starts to weaken.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">There is nothing wrong with Pluto's orbit at this time. It is Neptune that has the deviations, not Pluto or any of the new discoveries well beyond Pluto. Yet even Neptune deviates by only a few arc seconds, thousands of times smaller tha "a few degrees". And the Sun's influence is inverse square with distance more-or-less to infinity. It does not "start to weaken" at any known distance, at least until you get to the range of kiloparsecs (millions of times the distance to Pluto).
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Ans: fine then the plane of influence stretchs further.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">that was the point of looking at the, for now the solar system, from a fluid-dynamic point of view to me this would give a more detailed description, in 3D, of actually what is happening and why.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">How so? <i>Pushing Gravity</i> gives a detailed description of what is happening with gravity and why. And it is a description that even grade school children easily understand. In your "fluid-dynamic point of view", I don't see even the beginnings of any possible connection to gravity. Do you?
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Ans: that is the point,to give a more accurate picture,in 3D, of what all the variables coming together produce, there maybe things that influence a solar systems behavour that were not considered before and may change how we look at the mechanics of the system.

whether school childern understand it at this point is irrelevant to me,that does not make it right. although i understand your simplicity point.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">also this has never been done before or thought of<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Every conceovable gravity law has been thought about and tested over the last few centuries. Only one comes close to reality. And it doesn't depend on spin.
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Ans: maybe it should, blackholes for instance is still argued by even by you for instance and whether the Universe is expanding or not is still debated.also in Halton Arp's book he argues that a spiral galaxy stars are actually moving OUT from the center NOT in towards the center,what else could responsible for this but SPIN!!,in some ways this even counter to your pushing gravity idea,would not pushing gravity be pushing masses closer together?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">now we could do this by hand but i think this task is enormously too complex to do this way.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Do what? We already have everything relevant that we need to disprove your idea, to the extent that you have formulated it (which is not well at all for my mind to grasp).
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Ans: perhaps in yours but not mine.

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">i would really like to do this completely on my own but i lack the formal knowledge and access to facilities to do so.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Do what? You are being very vague on the specifics.
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Ans: my goodness what do you think? i think it is quite obvious

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i never said it was written in stone<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I'm happy to hear that, because writing it in stone would appear right now to be a great waste of chiseling energy. [}] -|Tom|-
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Ans: it's just a theory Tom, no need to get a burr under your saddle!!