Gravity Probe B

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KoenigMKII</i>
<br />Surprisingly enough, the scientists responsible seem not have to have forgotten the scientific mehod, and have an open mind on the results.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">What you call "not forgetting the scientific method", I would call "dodging the scientific method". Dr. Everett, the PI on the experiment, refuses to make any prediction for this experiment. Apparently, the team will wait and see what develops, then explain it with GR and announce another triumph for GR regardless of what the result is.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The obvious question for TVF is is "what does the Meta Model predict for the outcome of the experiment??"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Until orbital elements and gyro specifics are released, MM cannot make specific predictions. Hopefully, that will be remedied after the one-month initialization and testing period. -|Tom|-

So if the data is in agreement with General Relativity, relativists claim it as a success, and if it isn't, they construct an ad hoc hypothesis and claim it as a success anyway?

That's not scientific at all.

Tom,

I've given this frame dragging a little thought. Suppose we do observe a disalignment of the gyros of gravity probe B, could this be a result of elysium dragging instead of the alleged frame dragging scenario?

Tom, Polar orbit at 400 miles high is a faily quick orbit, if the gryros are as sensitive as claimed, won't GP-B detect the instantaneous position of Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars etc, rather than the light-time delayed ones, if MM is correct?

The GR bridgade have a "get-out-of-jail-free-card" ready for this.. or do they?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jan</i>
<br />I've given this frame dragging a little thought. Suppose we do observe a disalignment of the gyros of gravity probe B, could this be a result of elysium dragging instead of the alleged frame dragging scenario?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes, frame dragging is a sort of elysium-dragging phenomenon. It arises because Earth's rotation drags inertial frames or elysium with the "solid" Earth somewhat, producing an extra precession.

I think that GR expects the inertial frame to be dragged with Earth's rotation at full speed. But it is difficult to find experts who will commit on that point. MM expects much less elysium dragging than GR probably does. And in MM, the precession mechanism is just the torque applied to the pendulums by elysium "rotational spin". However, it will be very difficult to assure that other unforeseen effects will not invalidate the interpretation of any result seen. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by KoenigMKII</i>
<br />won't GP-B detect the instantaneous position of Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars etc, rather than the light-time delayed ones, if MM is correct?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">No. The full tugs of the planets are already almost negligible except over long time periods, so the tiny differences between instantaneous and delayed tugs would be even more negligible. And that is standard dynamics, having nothing to do with MM. Although "geometric" GR does not interpret instantaneous gravity as a propagation faster than light, it does recognize that gravitational force cannot be modeled with a light-speed delay and still get valid orbits. -|Tom|-