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Mal Education - System Design - Should Be VS Is
11 years 2 months ago #24333
by KeLP
Replied by KeLP on topic Reply from Ken Partridge
LB,
Your Platinum Rule put the onus of how to act upon the recipient; it is his way of wanting to be treated that is dominent. Instead of a masochist, think sadist.
The "Do not. . ." is important. It restricts my actions, thereby granting you more liberty. There is nothing there that should be interpreted as a requirement to fulfill, only to restrain from doing. Yes, religious zealots will say that gives license for anything not proscribed, but religious zealots always find an excuse.
Our Bill of Rights and Constitution are similarly documents of "negative liberty", restricting the Federal government. For the same reason: it maximizes the liberty of the states and individuals if the Feds are restrained. Well, they used to be, anyway.
You are right that the Golden Rule seems to have a defect; eg. the mascochist. But much of that defect comes from it being seen in a non-religious context. The Rule presupposes the follower is a practictioner of the Judeo-Christian religion. It was given in the Sermon on the Mount to the Disciples, not the multitudes. The words were not directed to the secular world.
For believers, the 10 commandments are mostly a list of negatives (thou shalt nots). And there are also the statutes and ordinances that Moses gave. The practictioner is therefore restrained, theoretically, from commiting a host of evils if he applies the "Do unto. . ." language.
Although, since a masochist sees pleasure in pain, he might not view any of the above as relevant.
This doesn't invalidate your point that most people operate under the Golden Rule as popularly understood. And as such, it fits well in your triad of Rules.
I'm sure an improved phrasing of the Platinum is possible, but I'm equally sure it will require a "Do not. . ." formulation.
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
Your Platinum Rule put the onus of how to act upon the recipient; it is his way of wanting to be treated that is dominent. Instead of a masochist, think sadist.
The "Do not. . ." is important. It restricts my actions, thereby granting you more liberty. There is nothing there that should be interpreted as a requirement to fulfill, only to restrain from doing. Yes, religious zealots will say that gives license for anything not proscribed, but religious zealots always find an excuse.
Our Bill of Rights and Constitution are similarly documents of "negative liberty", restricting the Federal government. For the same reason: it maximizes the liberty of the states and individuals if the Feds are restrained. Well, they used to be, anyway.
You are right that the Golden Rule seems to have a defect; eg. the mascochist. But much of that defect comes from it being seen in a non-religious context. The Rule presupposes the follower is a practictioner of the Judeo-Christian religion. It was given in the Sermon on the Mount to the Disciples, not the multitudes. The words were not directed to the secular world.
For believers, the 10 commandments are mostly a list of negatives (thou shalt nots). And there are also the statutes and ordinances that Moses gave. The practictioner is therefore restrained, theoretically, from commiting a host of evils if he applies the "Do unto. . ." language.
Although, since a masochist sees pleasure in pain, he might not view any of the above as relevant.
This doesn't invalidate your point that most people operate under the Golden Rule as popularly understood. And as such, it fits well in your triad of Rules.
I'm sure an improved phrasing of the Platinum is possible, but I'm equally sure it will require a "Do not. . ." formulation.
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
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- Larry Burford
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11 years 2 months ago #21632
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[KeLP] "But I want to not be ignored, and I want your liberty dependent on me."</b>
D*mn, spoken like an actual god. Or (pardon my French) a p*l*t*c**n.
D*mn, spoken like an actual god. Or (pardon my French) a p*l*t*c**n.
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11 years 2 months ago #21633
by KeLP
Replied by KeLP on topic Reply from Ken Partridge
LB,
Think of it this way:
Golden Rule: I like ice cream, therefore you must get ice cream.
Platinum Rule: I like ice cream, but you may not, so I won't force ice cream upon you.
The restraint has to be placed on the actor, without reference to the wants of the recipient, else the recipient is imposed upon. It matters not whether the imposition is enjoyable or harmful. Maximum liberty is obtained only when there is no imposition. And isn't that what "higher thinkers" are doing, imposing as little as possible, especially negatively and unnecessarily, on others? They don't bully because they don't pre-judge how others think and feel.
Maybe "Do not assume how others want to be treated."?
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
Think of it this way:
Golden Rule: I like ice cream, therefore you must get ice cream.
Platinum Rule: I like ice cream, but you may not, so I won't force ice cream upon you.
The restraint has to be placed on the actor, without reference to the wants of the recipient, else the recipient is imposed upon. It matters not whether the imposition is enjoyable or harmful. Maximum liberty is obtained only when there is no imposition. And isn't that what "higher thinkers" are doing, imposing as little as possible, especially negatively and unnecessarily, on others? They don't bully because they don't pre-judge how others think and feel.
Maybe "Do not assume how others want to be treated."?
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
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11 years 2 months ago #21634
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
You know - this is so WAY OFF TOPIC (here in this thread) it isn't even funny.
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11 years 2 months ago #21426
by shando
Replied by shando on topic Reply from Jim Shand
The Platinum Rule requires me to infer what you like/want - a critical defect, because I probably do not know what that is.
The Golden Rule does not require this knowledge - I only need to know what I want/like.
Therefore IMO the GR is preferable.
The Golden Rule does not require this knowledge - I only need to know what I want/like.
Therefore IMO the GR is preferable.
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11 years 2 months ago #24334
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[shando] "The Platinum Rule requires me to infer what you like/want"</b>
That is the hard way (because you will probably get it wrong, no matter how much research you do.)
Actually, all you have to do is ask me.
***
But most of us use the Golden Rule, because it allows us to avoid the 'awful' task of finding out what other people in our lives desire, and simply assume that all others want what we want. And that is so much easier. And, a lot of the time it is close to being true.
But when it is not, we should not incarcerate or kill the 'odd ball'.
We don't have a moral obligation to 'accept' them. But we do have a moral obligation to 'tolerate' them.
In my opinion.
<i><b><u>THERE AREN'T ENOUGH OF THEM TO HARM MANKIND!
THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.
LEAVE THEM ALONE!</u></b></i>
That is the hard way (because you will probably get it wrong, no matter how much research you do.)
Actually, all you have to do is ask me.
***
But most of us use the Golden Rule, because it allows us to avoid the 'awful' task of finding out what other people in our lives desire, and simply assume that all others want what we want. And that is so much easier. And, a lot of the time it is close to being true.
But when it is not, we should not incarcerate or kill the 'odd ball'.
We don't have a moral obligation to 'accept' them. But we do have a moral obligation to 'tolerate' them.
In my opinion.
<i><b><u>THERE AREN'T ENOUGH OF THEM TO HARM MANKIND!
THEY HAVE THEIR OWN PROBLEMS.
LEAVE THEM ALONE!</u></b></i>
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