- Thank you received: 0
Creation of the Big Bang!
22 years 1 month ago #3102
by makis
Replied by makis on topic Reply from
This are a little more complicated because of the way we have structured or knowledge.
There are sets in mathematics called Heterological. Those sets are not memebers of themselves. For instance, if we define the set of all big words and call it BIG the word BIG itself is NOT a member of the set. That is, we define things with names that do not have properties of the things they in turn define.
Going further, Heterological sets are not members of themselves since they are Heterological. In that sense and in the mess mathematicians and scientists have created, if we define the set of all things that do not exist as ZERO, zero can not be a member of itself if it exist.
Outch, you see part of the problem now, a problem created by mathematicians because of the way they have defined things. and those things came back and hunt them.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
There are sets in mathematics called Heterological. Those sets are not memebers of themselves. For instance, if we define the set of all big words and call it BIG the word BIG itself is NOT a member of the set. That is, we define things with names that do not have properties of the things they in turn define.
Going further, Heterological sets are not members of themselves since they are Heterological. In that sense and in the mess mathematicians and scientists have created, if we define the set of all things that do not exist as ZERO, zero can not be a member of itself if it exist.
Outch, you see part of the problem now, a problem created by mathematicians because of the way they have defined things. and those things came back and hunt them.<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
22 years 1 month ago #3005
by makis
Replied by makis on topic Reply from
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Now, where does "existence" reside?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
That's one of the primary questions of Cosmology, Theology and of its mother science, Philosophy. A few alternative:
1. It's only in our minds (Phenomenology)
2. It's in the Will of the Creator (Theology)
3. It's the immediately given and perceived (Pragmatism)
maybe there are more options....
Pick one and, trust me, you are as right as anyone else who would pick another alternative.
A very basic question is whether an observer can prove it's actually the observer of what is intended to be observed.
Now, where does "existence" reside?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
That's one of the primary questions of Cosmology, Theology and of its mother science, Philosophy. A few alternative:
1. It's only in our minds (Phenomenology)
2. It's in the Will of the Creator (Theology)
3. It's the immediately given and perceived (Pragmatism)
maybe there are more options....
Pick one and, trust me, you are as right as anyone else who would pick another alternative.
A very basic question is whether an observer can prove it's actually the observer of what is intended to be observed.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimiproton
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
22 years 1 month ago #3058
by jimiproton
Replied by jimiproton on topic Reply from James Balderston
quote:
______________________________________________________________________________
Now, where does "existence" reside?
______________________________________________________________________________
Existence must reside everywhere.
Now you must ask the contingent question: where does "nothingness" exist?
It exists .... nowhere.
Addendum: please don't ask where "nowhere" exists. That is begging the question (in the appropriate philosophical use of the term "begging the question"; ie. the question presumes the answer in its own formulation)
______________________________________________________________________________
Now, where does "existence" reside?
______________________________________________________________________________
Existence must reside everywhere.
Now you must ask the contingent question: where does "nothingness" exist?
It exists .... nowhere.
Addendum: please don't ask where "nowhere" exists. That is begging the question (in the appropriate philosophical use of the term "begging the question"; ie. the question presumes the answer in its own formulation)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimiproton
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
22 years 1 month ago #3015
by jimiproton
Replied by jimiproton on topic Reply from James Balderston
quote:
__________________________________________________________________________
quote:
Now, where does "existence" reside?
That's one of the primary questions of Cosmology, Theology and of its mother science, Philosophy
_______________________________________________________________________________
Just a clarification: I submit that the mother science of Philosophy is Theology, and not the other way around.
No shrouded religious underpinnings, merely historical. Besides, if the sciences are legitimate at all, they form distinctions within a single entity, of which all the sciences are different manifestations (even knowledge is just a "part" of a "whole").
__________________________________________________________________________
quote:
Now, where does "existence" reside?
That's one of the primary questions of Cosmology, Theology and of its mother science, Philosophy
_______________________________________________________________________________
Just a clarification: I submit that the mother science of Philosophy is Theology, and not the other way around.
No shrouded religious underpinnings, merely historical. Besides, if the sciences are legitimate at all, they form distinctions within a single entity, of which all the sciences are different manifestations (even knowledge is just a "part" of a "whole").
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimiproton
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
22 years 1 month ago #3065
by jimiproton
Replied by jimiproton on topic Reply from James Balderston
quote:
____________________________________________________________________________
"Nothingness" is everywhere existence is not. I do not agree that existence resides everywhere. I do agree that existence is everywhere there is something but not that it is everywhere there *could* be something.
__________________________________________________________________________
As to the "could be" question, that is a temporal limitation only... I should have said that, in time, "whatever can be is, was, or will be." Please attempt to disqualify this claim.
The previous quote presumes that existence and nothingness exist in a type of symbiotic relationship. This can never be the case, since 'symbiosis" assumes "existence." Existence precludes nothingness.
For the sake of debate, I will postulate [from my point of view] a "Devil's advocate" approach.
Does nothingness cancel existence? If so, what is the result? Nothingness? Why not existence? This is a true paradox, which should immediately disqualify the "nothingness theory.
As interlocutors, we are presently in existence meaning that there is no "nothing."
I.E. In infinity, even if it is only "us," there is "something."
____________________________________________________________________________
"Nothingness" is everywhere existence is not. I do not agree that existence resides everywhere. I do agree that existence is everywhere there is something but not that it is everywhere there *could* be something.
__________________________________________________________________________
As to the "could be" question, that is a temporal limitation only... I should have said that, in time, "whatever can be is, was, or will be." Please attempt to disqualify this claim.
The previous quote presumes that existence and nothingness exist in a type of symbiotic relationship. This can never be the case, since 'symbiosis" assumes "existence." Existence precludes nothingness.
For the sake of debate, I will postulate [from my point of view] a "Devil's advocate" approach.
Does nothingness cancel existence? If so, what is the result? Nothingness? Why not existence? This is a true paradox, which should immediately disqualify the "nothingness theory.
As interlocutors, we are presently in existence meaning that there is no "nothing."
I.E. In infinity, even if it is only "us," there is "something."
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- jimiproton
- Offline
- Premium Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
22 years 1 month ago #3484
by jimiproton
Replied by jimiproton on topic Reply from James Balderston
Addendum to previous reply;
quote:
___________________________________________________________________________
Spill a glass of water on the floor.
___________________________________________________________________________
You have presumed the existence of "a floor."
quote:
___________________________________________________________________________
Spill a glass of water on the floor.
___________________________________________________________________________
You have presumed the existence of "a floor."
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.368 seconds