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My pareidolia knows no bounds.
10 years 11 months ago #22066
by shando
Replied by shando on topic Reply from Jim Shand
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />Here is the REALLY short summary:
Per DRP, <b><u>Reality</b></u> has three components
1. Things with physical existence.
2. Things with conceptual existence.
3. Things with consciousness.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Larry, thanks for this. I was not aware that 2. and 3. were included in DRP.
I find when I am creating new things, #2 has to happen before #1 can happen.
<br />Here is the REALLY short summary:
Per DRP, <b><u>Reality</b></u> has three components
1. Things with physical existence.
2. Things with conceptual existence.
3. Things with consciousness.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Larry, thanks for this. I was not aware that 2. and 3. were included in DRP.
I find when I am creating new things, #2 has to happen before #1 can happen.
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10 years 11 months ago #15148
by shando
Replied by shando on topic Reply from Jim Shand
<b>LB: Does time have physical existence? </b>
I have tried to think about whether time is continuous or whether it is quantized - is there a minimum interval? I have not found the answer. But if it is the latter, what is going on between the pulses?
I have tried to think about whether time is continuous or whether it is quantized - is there a minimum interval? I have not found the answer. But if it is the latter, what is going on between the pulses?
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10 years 11 months ago #21655
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
shando,
If time exists as a concept only, then it can either be analog or digital (continuous or quantized). Actually, it is possible to conceive of time as both. Or neither. Concepts are sort of squishy that way.
But if time does in fact have physical existence - knowing that fact offers us no guidance on the analog/digital question. The issues are independent of one another.
If time exists as a concept only, then it can either be analog or digital (continuous or quantized). Actually, it is possible to conceive of time as both. Or neither. Concepts are sort of squishy that way.
But if time does in fact have physical existence - knowing that fact offers us no guidance on the analog/digital question. The issues are independent of one another.
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10 years 11 months ago #21656
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[shando] "... #2 has to happen before #1 can happen."</b>
Actually, no.
#1 (physical things) is totally unconditional.
#2 (conceptual things) is totally conditional.
#3 (conscious things) is indeterminate at this time.
Things with physical existence (#1) ... exist. (waddayamean circular?)
Before a consciousness (#3) can exist, there has to be a place for it to exist. (statement/question)
Lets go with this being a statement of fact.
(I'm reluctant to rule out anything, but this one is almost a slam-dunk.)
Before a concept (#2) can exist, there has to be a conceiver. (statement)
I'm very sure about this one. But take your best shot.
***
So, first there are things (#1) with physical existence.
Then from that foundation arises things (#3) with consciousness.
Finally the consciousness thinks about something, and a concept (#2) comes into existence.
Discussion?
Actually, no.
#1 (physical things) is totally unconditional.
#2 (conceptual things) is totally conditional.
#3 (conscious things) is indeterminate at this time.
Things with physical existence (#1) ... exist. (waddayamean circular?)
Before a consciousness (#3) can exist, there has to be a place for it to exist. (statement/question)
Lets go with this being a statement of fact.
(I'm reluctant to rule out anything, but this one is almost a slam-dunk.)
Before a concept (#2) can exist, there has to be a conceiver. (statement)
I'm very sure about this one. But take your best shot.
***
So, first there are things (#1) with physical existence.
Then from that foundation arises things (#3) with consciousness.
Finally the consciousness thinks about something, and a concept (#2) comes into existence.
Discussion?
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10 years 11 months ago #15149
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[rderosa] "... I'm having trouble with is understanding what the controversy is."</b>
For everyday, human scale things and actions there will probably not be much that changes. This is theoretical stuff that makes a difference in the back ground. Kind of like SR, GR and QM. We know about Einstein, and some theoreticians claim he is important, but most of us still use Newton to organize our lives.
Bumper sticker version - Einstein is important. Newton is IMPORTANT
As I said, I brought it up when you asked about the definition of 'real'. So to apply this to our discussion here, think about the pattern of light and dark material on the Moon that we all see as 'the man in the Moon'. It would be more accurate to say this pattern is physical than to say it is real. It is both, of course, but real is a larger set than physical and thus could, but does not necessarily, open the door to some ambiguity.
Such ambiguity is one of the reasons we are still arguing about relativity. Relativity is real - but is it physical or conceptual? Or perhaps some of it physical and the rest is conceptual?
This distinction becomes more useful when talking about stuff like the difference between space (a concept) and a meter stick (physical) or between time (a concept) and a clock (physical). Meter sticks and clocks are real. Space and time are real. But in different ways.
Without a consciousness, a conceiver, there would be no pieces of wood that had been turned into meter sticks because, in part, the concept of space would not exist. So, would/does space also exist physically? Stay tuned.
For everyday, human scale things and actions there will probably not be much that changes. This is theoretical stuff that makes a difference in the back ground. Kind of like SR, GR and QM. We know about Einstein, and some theoreticians claim he is important, but most of us still use Newton to organize our lives.
Bumper sticker version - Einstein is important. Newton is IMPORTANT
As I said, I brought it up when you asked about the definition of 'real'. So to apply this to our discussion here, think about the pattern of light and dark material on the Moon that we all see as 'the man in the Moon'. It would be more accurate to say this pattern is physical than to say it is real. It is both, of course, but real is a larger set than physical and thus could, but does not necessarily, open the door to some ambiguity.
Such ambiguity is one of the reasons we are still arguing about relativity. Relativity is real - but is it physical or conceptual? Or perhaps some of it physical and the rest is conceptual?
This distinction becomes more useful when talking about stuff like the difference between space (a concept) and a meter stick (physical) or between time (a concept) and a clock (physical). Meter sticks and clocks are real. Space and time are real. But in different ways.
Without a consciousness, a conceiver, there would be no pieces of wood that had been turned into meter sticks because, in part, the concept of space would not exist. So, would/does space also exist physically? Stay tuned.
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10 years 11 months ago #15150
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
Note that without the existence of at least one consciousness, no concept can exist.
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