New image of the Cydonia Face 4-13-06

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18 years 6 months ago #10745 by MarkVitrone
Replied by MarkVitrone on topic Reply from Mark Vitrone
A note on Earth's prehistory. There are structures on Earth that predate the pyramids that are of pertinence to the discussion about early technology. For example the platform of Balbak (check my sp) in present day Iran is so old that each of the major cultures have built on it like a foundation, but none laid the foundation. It is a solid cut stone platform beyond the masonry skill of those cultures. Mark

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18 years 6 months ago #10746 by neilderosa
Replied by neilderosa on topic Reply from Neil DeRosa
This is speculation laid upon speculation, but what the hey. Maybe there is an advanced space faring civilization that helps out emerging ones. Maybe they use some kind of high powered laser technology to cut out the stones and then lift them into place with whatever. They may also etch out carvings on barren planets.

Mark can you mention a book or paper describing Balbak?

Neil

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18 years 6 months ago #10747 by Zip Monster
Replied by Zip Monster on topic Reply from George
Tom

This two-faced debate has nothing to do with "vindication." It’s about the unbiased analysis of the data, which you admittedly haven’t pursued. And you call this science?

The clear mind and eye can only come to one conclusion, and that is that the Cydonia Face is asymmetrical by its very design and its two-faced form has been consistently supported by the entire data set.

The 1998 image confirmed the Humanoid side, while the 2001 image confirmed the Feline said. If you want to continually rationalize the felines features as just the result of meteor strikes and structural collapse then you aren’t being rational.

Throughout this thread, I appreciate your halfhearted scholarly effort to debunk the growing data that supports my view of a two-faced model and your effort to recruit my support, however I’m not ready to jump the bifurcated ship quite yet. And as far as I can tell it is you who has been tightening up your hatches and wearing a life vest from time to time.

The truth is you and the entire academic world scuffs at the thought of a two-faced model, because that - as you say – “vindicates” Richard’s 20-year assertion that the Face is a two-faced sphinx-like edifice. Your loathing of Richard has skewed your logic. The realization that the Face could be a two-faced structure would just push you over board, leaving you floundering in the deep cold water with the sharks of academia all over you. You would be finished. You would never sell another book.

Sitting on your western ideal of art history, the Cydonia Face has to be symmetrical. You’ve built your whole career on this narrow view. And if the data conflicts with that view you will come up with numerous convoluted theories that diverts our attention from the facts and buttress your preconceived reality of what you would like the face to look like, and not what it is.

Many here on this board have allowed this bias to limit and shape the artistic vision of an alien aesthetic to such an extent that they parrot your views. This narrow scope limits their projection of any sculpted portrait to a symmetrical human visage, which totally ignores the rich genre of composite motifs found throughout the New World, such as two-faced masks.

Not only have I made a significant case for the Cydonia Face being bifurcated - I’ve matched its composite facial features and iconography to a terrestrial art form found throughout Mesoamerica. I have identified over 13 points of conformation within the design of the face with Mesoamerican motifs. Structural faulting and meteor damage doesn’t create common iconography in the correct shape and orientation or follow any cultural norms.

You might want to step back and do a little soul searching and take a second look at the face and follow the data.

Remember, anytime your ready - I could send a little raft of reeds out and pull you out of the cold , cold water.


Zip Monster

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18 years 6 months ago #10749 by neilderosa
Replied by neilderosa on topic Reply from Neil DeRosa
<i>Originally posted by rderosa</i> <blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Tom, did you ever have the opportunity to let someone schooled in metallurgical failure analysis look at this image (or one like it)?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

For those who aren't familiar with this material, the image Rich posted here is a cropping of a crack in the cheek area of the Cydonia Face. We used E1501347 for this cropping because it is the highest resolution shot of the damaged east side of the Face (1.63m/p). While we were studying this feature, Rich also noticed that even at the highest magnificaton no light pixels entered the crack at all, indicating that the fissure is probably relativly deep. We think this is consistent with a crack in a hollow metal shell which forms a kind of hull from which the Face was sculptured. If you look at his post again you can actually see strands of material at the center of the crack which are still connected like a bridge between the two edges of the fissure. Also, the jagged edges of the fissure are fairly well matched indicating that they split apart from each other, probably under the stress of the meteor event which did the damage.

Neil

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18 years 6 months ago #15944 by rderosa
Replied by rderosa on topic Reply from Richard DeRosa
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by neilderosa</i>
<br />For those who aren't familiar with this material, the image Rich posted here is a cropping of a crack in the cheek area of the Cydonia Face. We used E1501347 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Thanks Neil. I forgot about explaining that. I was sort of doing a "stream of consciousness" post after reading one of the links Tom posted above, where he had a similar image of the crack.

rd

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18 years 6 months ago #10836 by Gregg
Replied by Gregg on topic Reply from Gregg Wilson
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rderosa</i>
<br />

<i>Originally posted by neilderosa</i>
<br />For those who aren't familiar with this material, the image Rich posted here is a cropping of a crack in the cheek area of the Cydonia Face. We used E1501347 <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This crack is very interesting. It is a strong piece of evidence of hollowness underneath. One is tempted to speculate that the understructure is fiberglass or similar composite. The shinyness could come from metal which was either clad on top or placed by vapor deposition.

A few factors:

1) The Mars atmosphere reflects an extreme oxidation event in the distant past. This is indicated by a very low level of nitrogen, a very low ratio of nitrogen to argon (in relation to Earth and Venus) and the presence of a small amount of nitric oxide. So, the current atmosphere would not be a source for oxidation on the Face.

2) However, the thin atmosphere allows ionizing radiation to act upon the Face and the atmosphere.

3) If Mars is made of crustal material from the mother planet, the most available metal would be aluminum. Aluminum does have the problem of sudden, large cracks from fatigue. An underlying composite mesh would alleviate that problem.

4) High shine could come from a vapor deposit of a noble metal. Color photography of the Face would be a very large aid in analysis.

5) The appearence of melting brings up aluminum as the most likely candidate.

I am not a metallurgist but have had long term experience with metal corrosion and erosion, though not with melting. My guesses barely open the door.

Finding a metallurgist is an excellent idea. (One who doesn't need to play it safe.)

Gregg Wilson

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