orientation of disks

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17 years 2 weeks ago #20584 by tvanflandern
The orientation of the planes of double stars is random. The orientation of the planes of extrasolar planets is random. The orientation of the ecliptic plane appears random. What leads you to say that it seems non-random? -|Tom|-

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17 years 2 weeks ago #20585 by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Hi Tom, Well, I just got to wondering and asked here and on the Yahoo physics link. A guy there said nothing is random in physics. I wonder if the orientation changes over time. What leads to conclude the orientation of observed binaries is random? Has it been kicked around in the past by astronomers? Just thinking about it from my odd position it seems an important detail something like the way birds and fish move enmasse.

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17 years 2 weeks ago #18396 by tvanflandern
"nothing is random in physics" -- That's just playing word games. If the universe is determinant, nothing is strictly random. But the collision of air molecules with each other is so nearly random that there is no hope of our detecting any non-randomness as far into the future as we can foresee.

Stars in galaxies are very much like air molecules. Their frequent individual close approaches and collisions are a matter of chance. Yet that does not preclude sharing long-term common motions at the same time, such as winds for air molecules and Galaxy rotation for galaxy stars. Birds and fish do not move randomly because they are biological organisms with functioning brains.

The orientation of the solar system with respect to inertial space is constant except to the extent that a passing star might come so close as to change it randomly. However, because the Sun revolves around the Galaxy center, the fixed orientation of the solar system in space is slowly changing with respect to the Galaxy center by about two degrees every million years.

Lots of binary stars have well-known orbits. I'm not aware of any study looking for non-randomness. But just looking at such data does not hint at any obvious pattern.

It would be an interesting hypothesis to suggest that all stars in any one gas cloud form with orientations perpendicular to the center of that cloud because supernova shock waves flatten the gas along the direction of shock wave travel. However, those stars soon separate and mix with other field stars, and one would lose all trace of the original pattern after billions of years. -|Tom|-

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17 years 2 weeks ago #18397 by Jim
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Lots of stuff here of interest and not enough time to go everywhere. Are you saying the changes in the orientation of the solar and galatic disk is random motion?

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17 years 2 weeks ago #20475 by tvanflandern
It is predictable motion from one random orientation to another. -|Tom|-

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17 years 2 weeks ago #20476 by Jim
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So, the solar planetary disk rotates once every trip around galaxy and is fixed in space? And it remains more or less perpendiculiar? If its fixed in space how did that happen?

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