What is "miraculous"?

north
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20 years 2 months ago #11835 by north

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skarp

First you have abstract logical principles.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And then we can expect an abstract logical principle to be played out in some form. That form must be one nothing - Matter is composed of nothing at all.

how do you PROVE that matter is nothing.for example radiation at high enough levels, if you are exposed,will kill you.this is not logic it is reality. if radiation is nothing then why do my cells act in the complete opposite(has a reaction,nothing should have no reaction). explain nuclear reactions heat.actually explain all things for that matter,why they do what they do,based on nothing!!

nothing has no substance, principles or logic.

does your nothing have space,time or dimension?

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north
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20 years 2 months ago #11654 by north

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Skarp

as far as i'm concerned Tom makes far more sense than either you or EBTX.

thought is one thing,but making sense is quite another.

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EBTX
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20 years 2 months ago #11551 by EBTX

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">principles come out of interactions with substance.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I absolutely don't agree with you on that. It's where Tom and I part company.

My view is more like this:

If everything is taken at once it cancels out to nothing at all. Within this domain (everything/nothing) is potentially any kind of subset. One (and I believe only one) of the subsets is non-contradictory, i.e. our universe.

All the principles, substance, etc. or whatever you might imagine are housed in the "master domain" which finds no expression except in the subset "universe".

No matter what substance you choose, you must posit principles which govern the behavior of that substance. In Tom's case, MIs collide with one another and that's about all there is. But even a "collision" requirement is a principle to which the MIs must adhere.

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Skarp
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20 years 2 months ago #11655 by Skarp

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how do you PROVE that matter is nothing<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
First off - You are speaking of the undefined nothing. So most certainly it would be impossible to accept.

Lets start with the nothing you refer to. I.E. The universe does not exist. This is one of a couple starting blocks. Tom chooses the starting block of (the universe has always been as another example). The question might be - What is nothing? The answer should inevitably be a conclusion that nothing is undefinable. In general - This is where most everybody gets stuck and thats the end of it. What must be understood is that if the universe came from nothing, a definition of nothing must absolutely be a requirement. Yet we find that nothing is absolutely undefinable. The only available option open to discussion is that the the universe is an incomplete definition of nothing (an ongoing process). I. E The universe today is a more defined version of nothing than it was a billion years ago. The incomplete version of nothing is no more than a geometric. This consist of any number of forms short of an infinity of them.

The statement that matter is nothing can't be proven as far as I know ( nothing is undefinable). I can infer that it is by reasoning alone. A universe that begins with nothing must by fiat ... be made of nothing. There is no choice but to take it with you in an explanation of it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">does your nothing have space,time or dimension?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Yes - That is what nothing is in an incomplete version. The substance you refer to is unnecessary baggage. All phenomenon can be explained through forms of nothing.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">nothing has no logic.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"> Nothing is the epitome of logic. It's summary is not more not less than infinity.

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north
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20 years 2 months ago #11778 by north

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by EBTX
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">principles come out of interactions with substance.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I absolutely don't agree with you on that. It's where Tom and I part company.

My view is more like this:

If everything is taken at once it cancels out to nothing at all. Within this domain (everything/nothing) is potentially any kind of subset. One (and I believe only one) of the subsets is non-contradictory, i.e. our universe.
-_____________________________________________________________________

where is the evidence for this domain?

All the principles, substance, etc. or whatever you might imagine are housed in the "master domain" which finds no expression except in the subset "universe".

No matter what substance you choose, you must posit principles which govern the behavior of that substance. In Tom's case, MIs collide with one another and that's about all there is. But even a "collision" requirement is a principle to which the MIs must adhere.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
_____________________________________________________________________

to me all you've done is told me that there is a balance,between positive and negative energy(i think thats what you mean,otherwise what then cancels out?)and that this then is where you find your "master domain". then if that is true lets bring it down to a smaller scale. using a balance of the type that has at either end of the balance arm a cup,now putting the same amount of energy(opposite to each other) to each causes a balance that for arguments sake comes to nothing when brought together,why would i then come to the conclusion that there must be some hidden "master domain"? not only do i find that it is unnecessary,i find for the most part that nature tries for the balance,ecology,even where, if an atom is missing an electron for the most part it will seek one out.also obviously substance is not destroyed so i find your cancelling out is more of a mathematical analogy when you talk of nothing,rather than reality because we are here after all.to form a theory around strickly mathematical analysis without bringing in reality to see if where your going fits in with reality, well then anything can and will happen.mathematics can prove just about anything you want, the only restriction to it is your imagination and interpretation of the data.

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north
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20 years 1 month ago #11554 by north

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Skarp
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how do you PROVE that matter is nothing<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
First off - You are speaking of the undefined nothing. So most certainly it would be impossible to accept.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yet we find that nothing is absolutely undefinable<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">.

actually it is definable.there what i call the practical nothing,now this could be personal> there is nothing in my account,nothing is going on,to a group>we have nothing(in equipment,money etc.)compared to another group>country(s)nothing in natural resourses(Japan).

then there is the nothing(absolute)where we talk of substance and in this case nothing is the complete opposite to substance.nothing in this case has NO space(substance has space to manifest)NO time(substance has time,movement)and NO dimension(substance has dimension,the ability to manifest).

The only available option open to discussion is that the the universe is an incomplete definition of nothing (an ongoing process). I. E The universe today is a more defined version of nothing than it was a billion years ago. The incomplete version of nothing is no more than a geometric. This consist of any number of forms short of an infinity of them.

The statement that matter is nothing can't be proven as far as I know ( nothing is undefinable). I can infer that it is by reasoning alone. A universe that begins with nothing must by fiat ... be made of nothing. There is no choice but to take it with you in an explanation of it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">does your nothing have space,time or dimension?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yes - That is what nothing is in an incomplete version. The substance you refer to is unnecessary baggage. All phenomenon can be explained through forms of nothing.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

there is no "incomplete" version of nothing in the context of substance it is the exact opposite,NO space,time or dimension completely and absolutely.in the strictness of terms there is no part nothing either you have or you don't,it is not a fraction of,or "like" nothing of something,nothing is nothing period.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">nothing has no logic.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Nothing is the epitome of logic. It's summary is not more not less than infinity.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

nothing is the epitome of nothing but it's self.again nothing has no space time or dimension,it is the complete and absolute opposite of substance.

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