Paradoxes and Dilemmas

Respectfully, I disagree with the diagnosis of "retarded". The behavior we have witnessed has some distinctive characteristics that are unforgivable in adults, which is why it upsets them. But if the behavior were known to be from kids, we would all respond differently.

Think about it. We have seen ego stroking, flashes of brilliant specialized insight buried in fields of ignorance, unfamiliarity with adult concepts, taunting, a lack of social graces, resentment of constructive criticism, unfamiliarity with the use of citations, undeveloped reasoning processes, difficulty expressing oneself and articulating a coherent thought pattern, ready acceptance of appealing-but-impossible ideas, moodiness, a lack of perspective, friends who think the same way, ... The list is lengthy, and I'm sure others could add many more items to it.

What do these attributes have in common? Immaturity: kids pretending to be adults, and wanting to be accepted as such, yet lacking any perspective about how much they don't yet know about life and societal interactions. One of the dominant themes of developmental years is that kids of any age usually disdain kids even just a year or two younger because they readily see the immaturity of the younger ones. Yet they can't yet see the immaturity of their present age, whatever it may be. The desire to be accepted by adults is strong. They make no allowance for the inevitable -- that their present behavior will be an embarrassment even to themselves in just a couple more years. If they were adults, "retarded" might be an apt description. But immaturity fits the facts better.

Given this diagnosis, I think the problem is self-correcting. The adults here will be more inclined to be tolerant and make allowances, but we will also tend to be more patronizing; and that defeats the ego-stroking that youngsters seek. So they will soon tire of trying to play adult and go find another playground.

But count on it – They will be back in a couple of years to try again to be accepted. That is inevitable. It is also almost inevitable that, some day, they will succeed in being accepted. Most eventually do mature. In the meantime, impatience to get there really is a good motivator. -|Tom|-

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[tvf]
Given this diagnosis, I think the problem is self-correcting. The adults here will be more inclined to be tolerant and make allowances, but we will also tend to be more patronizing; and that defeats the ego-stroking that youngsters seek. So they will soon tire of trying to play adult and go find another playground.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

Actually, you're right. In the long run it is probably better NOT to make them go sit in the corner. They would just start spending energy finding ways to get around it, potentially making things worse.

(Putting a big sign in that corner was only a half-serious suggestion. But it was a fun image to visualize.)

We are here to learn, and learning to deal with people, in all of their various moods and modes, is one of the more important parts of that task.

Regards,
LB

Wow! Flame throwers are at full throttle now.

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..it stumped TVF, then I went further to challenge his "PUSHING" gravity by asking about C^2 as well as E=mc^2. I couldn't express it in a scientific fashion but Makis could. Next, everybody starts attacking Makis' character, and his ability to communicate in the english language.
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Get your facts straight Patrick. Makis started calling other people names and didn't retract any of it. You have an odd idea of "stumped". TVF and the others don't seem stumped to me.

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WHAT POOR EXCUSES! It's not that what Makis or I have said is incoherant, it's that it challenges TVF and he cannot defend himself because he knows we are right and rather then lose face he tries to discredit by trying to flex his SUPERIOR knowledge while the rest of you sit around and stroke his ego.
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This is nonsense, I doubt that any of us agree with every single sentence of Tom's book. Who is stroking ego's here? You and Makis are the only one's claiming that there are particular people of superior knowledge here. And by the way, some of what you say IS incoherent. When you throw out 0=0 as being equally profound as E=mc^2 it is obvious that you need some more math classes behind you.

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I have asked several times and still have not gotten an answer because I can see that everyone is too scared to enter the debate with me about E=mc^2. TVF stated that he understands it yet <90% of others do.
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I agree, and that <90% is you.

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Why then have you, or your associates, not offered up your explaination of E=mc^2? It's because you might get caught on the wrong side of the debate and then you will have to resort to name calling to try and distract from the issue; CHICKENS!
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Why continue explaining things when you won't even accept basic dimensional analysis?

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Talk about ignorant, actually just plain old STUPID, to remove someone and there posts simply because they disagree as if everything they have said is useless. I think it goes further then disagreement, I think it goes directly to the truth and that it challenges TVF's models.
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Once again your facts are reversed. Makis is the one who originally was asking how he could remove all his posts.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Once again your facts are reversed. Makis is the one who originally was asking how he could remove all his posts.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

And just to remove any ambiguity, Makis is the one who just deleted all his own posts. Ordinarily, I'd like to see these discussions archived (and in a pinch, they are still available on backups of the web site host's computer at the internet host's own facility). But in this case, as I said a couple of times, the ideas were an embarrassment, tended to derail serious discussions, and may have driven away some more knowledgeable parties unwilling to put up with such elementary inanity.

But I'd like to thank all those who gave generously of their time and experience trying to teach Makis basic physics. I'm sure we had many readers who benefited, even if the intended recipient was unable to do so. -|Tom|-

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Once again your facts are reversed. Makis is the one who originally was asking how he could remove all his posts.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

[tvf]
And just to remove any ambiguity, Makis is the one who just deleted all his own posts. Ordinarily, I'd like to see these discussions archived (and in a pinch, they are still available on backups of the web site host's computer at the internet host's own facility). But in this case, as I said a couple of times, the ideas were an embarrassment, tended to derail serious discussions, and may have driven away some more knowledgeable parties unwilling to put up with such elementary inanity.

But I'd like to thank all those who gave generously of their time and experience trying to teach Makis basic physics. I'm sure we had many readers who benefited, even if the intended recipient was unable to do so. -|Tom|- <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>

I was just reviewing the thread to see what it looks like without Makis' posts. There are enough references to his work that it might be confusing to a new commer.

I also noticed that "Patrick" (Makis' cheerleader) has removed most if not all of his postings. Do you suppose they really were two different people?

Suggestion:
Can the software be adjusted to leave a marker in place of a deleted post? Something like "(Deleted at author's request)"?

When quoting someone can it be adjusted to replace the word "quote" with the poster's name? This can help keep things straight even if a quoted post has not been deleted. I'm trying to develop the habit of doing this manually, but sometimes I forget.

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You were dramatically correct about the self-limiting nature of an episode like this.

Regards,
LB

what's wrong with you people? i've beed reading these threads for some time now...just registered to ask you a question... or 2...

question 1... what's your problem?

question 2... what's your problem?

you def/ly got a problem, no quest about that....

as far as physics goes, that's the last thing you're doing here lads...

question 3... what's your problem?

I can't see why some guy mikis can be your problem... or be a problem...the problem is your own ego... check it out... there are good docs around... a visit to one is recommended....

question 4... what's your problem?

you must find out...

so long lads...