<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DAVID</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by 1234567890</i>
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If the proper units and terminology were used, SR's postulate of a constant speed of light independent of source must result in contradiction with its second postulate, that physics is the same in all inertial frames, since the speed of light then would be c+v and c-v round trip measured inside an inertial frame moving at v relative to the vacuum.
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Yes it is. Exactly.
And here’s how you can figure it out and prove what you just said. This is what allowed me to figure it out:
Think of a passenger on a moving train. The whistle blows and the passenger hears the same pitch of the whistle that the moving whistle is actually emitting.
But on the track ahead of the train, a stationary observer hears a higher pitch, and on the track behind the train, a stationary observer hears a lower pitch.
There are TWO completely different Doppler Effects at work here. And for the moving observer, one Effect cancels out the other Effect.
Most people think of the Doppler Effect as being only one kind of effect that produces either a redshift or a blueshift in the signal, but there are actually TWO completely different kinds of Doppler Effects, and by working out the physical conditions, on graph paper, then you can answer the question about why a moving observer on the train hears no redshift or blueshift in the whistle tone, and this will tell you that light speed can not possibly be regulated to “c” relative to all observers.
Get yourself some graph paper, and work out this puzzle. Make a simple drawing of the train and the moving observer on the train. And then add the stationary observer at the front and the stationary observer at the rear. You might need two different sheets of graph paper to do this, one for the two stationary observers, and the other for the moving train and moving observer.
I don’t have such an illustration drawn up at the moment, but I’m thinking about making one so I can post it on the internet.
This is a very interesting experiment, which I first noticed and puzzled about while riding on a train. When I got home I got some graph paper and I made drawings of the sound waves and their wavelengths, and I figured out exactly what physical process takes place that causes the moving observer to hear no pitch change. Solving this puzzle will show you that relative light speed is c + v and c – v for observers moving relative to what you call the “vacuum”. If you work this puzzle out on graph paper, you will find that the grid of the paper itself represents the metrics of the “air” in the puzzle and “the vacuum” regarding relative light speed when the same principle is applied to light.
I have a little more new information about the metrics of the “vacuum”, but I’ll tell you about that later.
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If the speed of light is source independent then it is c relative to any observer moving at any velocity as long as the observers all referred to the vacuum frame to measure the flight path of the light. If inertial coordinates not at rest with respect to the vacuum
are used however, the speed of the light must be c + v and c-v with respect to the origin of the inertial observer because the space between the inertial observer and the photon becomes "mixed". This results in anisotropic effects inside different inertial frames because the detector of light from one direction inside an inertial frame would receive it with less energy than light from the opposite direction. So there should be different Doppler shifts of single photons inside an inertial frame, if their speeds are source independent. I.e., Einstein's two postulates contradict each other.
Only if light speed is source dependent can physics be the same inside different inertial frames. And I really think this is the case because waitresses in cafes, servers inside train cabins
moving at 52 miles per hour, and stewardesses on a 747 flying at
534 miles per hour can pour a cup of coffee right into a cup without
spilling a drop so it can't be all that difficult for light to move with a velocity dependent of its source.
Inertial coordinates are a system of coordinates, which can be represented by particles moving at a constant velocity through space, that are at rest with respect to each other. Physical interactions between these particles then should reveal the fact that they are at rest with respect to each other, else Nature's definition of the state of rest between particles would become more complicated. E.g., imagine a source and detector both moving at constant velocity represented by V or J or M or N or S or C or G or L or P or Q or any other letter of the alphabet. If light is independent of source velocity, the detector would think the source is moving relative to it even though they are at rest with respect to one another in the same inertial frame moving relative to a stationary vacuum, leading to an infinite number of definitions for rest. This would be unsatisfying on a philosophical level at least. And as mentioned previously, every day observations (events inside a car, a plane, or on an Earth moving at 30 km/sec through space - we should fall of the earth when we take a step
if we did not have the same motion as the Earth already) verify source dependence of events for particles, and since waves are the collective motion of particles in space- if they are source dependent then so are the waves they produce. So whether depicted as a wave or as a particle, the speed of photons should depend on the velocity of the source frame, i.e., it should be c+v and c-v in the two directions with respect to the vacuum.
