The Big Bang never happened

Probably the most strictly enforced rule we have here is the one against ad hominum attacks. It is encouraging that you guys have learned to keep the name-calling focused on each other's ideas.

Although calling someone else's idea a derogatory name isn't prohibited, it highlights the weakness of the name-caller's position. Especially if the name-calling is not accompanied by an explanation of why the attacked idea should be called a derogatory name.

LB

Thank you for responding Patrick.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Not really sure where your confusion is coming from. At what point have I EVER said that anything came <b>BEFORE</b> (E)nergy?

BEFORE (M)atter, YES! BEFORE the BANG, YES! BEFORE PURE ENERGY, NO!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You said NOTHING existed BEFORE the BB. “Before” designates a future POINT in TIME, “After” refers back to that POINT! The event threshold of the Bang had to begin at a point in time. If Time did not exist BEFORE that event threshold then the Bang could not have BEGUN. Or to restate! An event threshold happens at a Point In Time, not before. If Time did not exist when the event threshold began then the beginning could not have begun. Or, is my Point escaping you?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Life? Why do you need to bring life into it? Life is simply a form of (M)atter.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Life, although a force, is neither Energy nor Matter and must be addressed separate from either. To leave Life out of BigBangism is disingenuous to the overall model.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Question. Einstein formulated the equation E=MC2, However, if as you state that Mass and Time was a result of Energy conversion then the equation should read M+T=E/C2- and then when Life is included, M+T+L=E/C2- which then corrects Einstein’s to read E=M-T-LC2. Are you sure your model can support the mathematical upheaval?
c2 is the (T)ime measurement. The speed of light is constant and propagates at the very same rate as (T)ime.

Answer. Like I said earlier, forget about the life element.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
OK, take Life out of the equation for this question, but, you could still respond to the equation that is left; or would you rather not?. You also said that the Laws of Physics were not in effect until AFTER the Bang, however, the speed of Light is a Law of Physics as is the conversion of Matter into Energy, the Bang then, requires both Laws to be in effect at the Time of the Bang.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Question, Are you really trying to compare Space with Water? I am trying to be serious here.

Answer, Is it too difficult for you? If you were in a pool of water and it was expanding as fast as you could possibly swim wouldn't it seem infinite? My example is perfectly legitimate. Do you care to argue it?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Argue, no...discuss, yes, but only if you would get your analogies straight. Your original statement was to the effect that neither water nor Space could be compressed, space is not a liquid, therefor your first analogy is invalid and your second analogy does not relate to your first analogy. But to answer the question; Yes! The water would seem infinite but that would apply to anything that seemed to propagate as fast as I moved including Space. Now, what is your point?
And speaking of Space, you seem to have missed, or avoided, my question about Space. You stated that Space did not exist until after the Bang yet Energy existed before Space; so my question was; what area did your Energy occupy if not Space?
Which brings up a few other questions, which are; If, as you say, nothing existed before the Bang except Pure Energy then what is the causation for the Energy to exist in the first place? And, if nothing else existed, what purpose did the Energy serve? And why did it suddenly decide to go Bang? Did the Energy have intelligence? And if it did not, where did the intelligence come from that decided it was Time for it, (the Energy) to go Bang and create everything else?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Your concluding statement. Now that is just a plain STUPID statement.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Finally, a subject we agree on. Personally, I would prefer to have dialog without using words like stupid but, since you brought the subject up I feel free to respond. Yes Patrick, that was a plainly stupid statement, so stupid in fact that I would have preferred to not respond, but like I said, I am just trying to help. Now I am so happy for you that I did. Having seen the error of your ways I hope you find an new, enjoyable endeavor. So, in my constant attempt to be helpful, I took the liberty to contact the hobby shop and they informed me they have a whole new shipment of models and they promised a 10% discount if you promise to put the model together right. Happy shopping!

Thank you for your time.
thebobgy

Having seen the error of your ways I hope you find an new, enjoyable endeavor. So, in my constant attempt to be helpful, I took the liberty to contact the hobby shop and they informed me they have a whole new shipment of models and they promised a 10% discount if you promise to put the model together right. Happy shopping!

Thank you for your time.
thebobgy
[/quote]

thebobgy

Watch it buddy! I make models at age 60 and having been doing it since 1951. And I get a 25% discount through my hobby club! Currently working on a 48 inch Fletcher Destroyer. My wife says I must have started it at the time of the Big Bang. With your input on time, can you help me in arguing with my wife?

Thanks.


Gregg Wilson

What is the difference between speaking of the BB and speaking of the sex of the angels ?
The BB is founded on the assumption that the redshifts result from a Doppler/expansion effect while the users of laser pulses observe Doppler-like redshifts every day. Do their cells or optical fibres expand ?

The question can you compact water,,,,,,,,,,,the answer is yes

Can you compact space the answer is no.

Unless you want to bring maths into it an formulate time into it and re-nigg the numbers. But! the answer is not actual.

Harry

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Watch it buddy! I make models at age 60 and having been doing it since 1951. And I get a 25% discount through my hobby club! Currently working on a 48 inch Fletcher Destroyer. My wife says I must have started it at the time of the Big Bang. With your input on time, can you help me in arguing with my wife?
Thanks.
Gregg Wilson<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Gregg,
You are 60 and make ships, I am 61 and I make waves, (not the feamle type). Didn't the Navy do some time travel experiments in 1955, the "Philadelphia Experiment" using the Gearing Class, Timmerman? Let's see...You started building in 1951 and your wife says you started before the BB...the Philadelphia Experiment was in 1955, hmmm...THAT"S IT!!! That's the answer. The Timmerman went back in Time to before the BB and set the Energy conversion in motion that started the whole world laughing...the BB happened in 1955, (relativly speaking). My God man...oops, I mean, my Goodness man, that just proves how good the Navy really is. As to arguing with the wife, better stick to the standard (yes dear!) model, ends the argument and no mess to clean up. Then again, maybe she is frustrated, she knows you got your keel down now she just wants you to get your mast up. Good luck and don't let the glue drip.
thank you for your time,
thebobgy