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Is the current big bang model wrong?
20 years 7 months ago #8756
by Jan
Replied by Jan on topic Reply from Jan Vink
DAVID,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DAVID</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by wisp</i>
<br />
My views on the BB model are similar to yours, but I believe that ether fills space. The reason that the galaxies appear to be speeding up as they move apart is because of expansion in the ether.
wisp
- particles of nothingness
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Do you mean that you think the galaxies are not separating but the ether is “expanding”? And that’s what produces the redshifts of the distant galaxies?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What do you think about induced redschift through energy loss of the light wave?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DAVID</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by wisp</i>
<br />
My views on the BB model are similar to yours, but I believe that ether fills space. The reason that the galaxies appear to be speeding up as they move apart is because of expansion in the ether.
wisp
- particles of nothingness
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Do you mean that you think the galaxies are not separating but the ether is “expanding”? And that’s what produces the redshifts of the distant galaxies?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What do you think about induced redschift through energy loss of the light wave?
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20 years 7 months ago #8820
by wisp
Replied by wisp on topic Reply from Kevin Harkess
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do you mean that you think the galaxies are not separating but the ether is "expanding"? And that's what produces the redshifts of the distant galaxies?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The ether expansion during the BB is cause by the formation of matter. Matter that forms in ether that moves fast due to expansion will have the speed of the ether at that moment. But once matter has formed the ether can continue expanding passed it. So the continued expansion of the ether will not add speed to galaxies but will affect the redshift of light giving a perceived increase or decrease to the energy of the light.
I guess there should be a central point of expansion.
wisp
- particles of nothingness
The ether expansion during the BB is cause by the formation of matter. Matter that forms in ether that moves fast due to expansion will have the speed of the ether at that moment. But once matter has formed the ether can continue expanding passed it. So the continued expansion of the ether will not add speed to galaxies but will affect the redshift of light giving a perceived increase or decrease to the energy of the light.
I guess there should be a central point of expansion.
wisp
- particles of nothingness
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20 years 7 months ago #8757
by DAVID
Well, there plenty of possibilities about what is really happening.
I don’t have much of an opinion about the energy loss of a light wave, except that I tend to believe that frequencies remain the same and are not reduced in transit, but I’m not positive about that.
To me, I would see the “energy loss” as an amplitude loss, not a frequency loss. Here is a website that has a JAVA that shows amplitude of light waves.
micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/science...omagnetic/index.html
Regarding the galaxies, we’ve got two big problems with them. If they are not moving away from each other, we’ve got the problem of why they don’t move toward each other because of all the gravitational attraction. Newton suggested four possibilities for such an apparent visual condition, as observed in the 17th Century with all the stars and galaxies appearing to be “fixed” in place: an infinite universe in which the gravity pull was equal on all sides of a star or galaxy, a slowly collapsing universe, a slowly expanding universe, or a rotating or revolving universe.
I’m willing to accept the redshifts as a sign of an expanding universe, with the original big bang being some sort of “creation” process.
Regarding the expanding ether idea, I tend to think of the ether as being directly related to the gravity fields of each galaxy and astronomical body. There is a Taiwan physicists who has developed a new “local ether” theory that explains the “local ether” idea very well. In this theory, all the locally strong areas of the gravity fields act as a local light propagating medium near astronomical bodies, and essentially, the local gravity fields regulate the speed of light locally, at and near astronomical bodies like the earth:
qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/outline.pdf
If the galaxies are moving apart, I don’t believe that space is “expanding”. Perhaps we could say the “volume of space is expanding”, but if the galaxies are separating I would call that “moving”, rather than “being carried along by expanding space”.
What would happen with the “local ether” theory in an expanding universe would be that the gravity fields would be “expanding” and “stretching”, i.e. becoming weaker, in the spaces between the galaxies.
I couldn’t care less about what the majority of cosmologists think. They’ve been covering up a lot of information for years, because of the simple fact that ever since the big bang idea was discovered, it “appears” that our viewing position is in the center of the expanding universe, and they can’t stand that position for us, for anti-theological reasons. So that’s why the “surface of the expanding balloon model” was invented in the first place. So the average guy won’t ask, “Hey, where is the ‘center’ of the universe?” Because, it looks as if we are in the center. I’m not saying that we are in the center. And I suspect that we are well away from the center, if there is one, but visually, it looks as if we are in the center, from our viewing position, and this is too much of a “Biblical” place for us to be, according to most of the professional astronomers. I think some of them are afraid that we actually <i>are</i> in the center.
Replied by DAVID on topic Reply from
Well, there plenty of possibilities about what is really happening.
I don’t have much of an opinion about the energy loss of a light wave, except that I tend to believe that frequencies remain the same and are not reduced in transit, but I’m not positive about that.
To me, I would see the “energy loss” as an amplitude loss, not a frequency loss. Here is a website that has a JAVA that shows amplitude of light waves.
micro.magnet.fsu.edu/primer/java/science...omagnetic/index.html
Regarding the galaxies, we’ve got two big problems with them. If they are not moving away from each other, we’ve got the problem of why they don’t move toward each other because of all the gravitational attraction. Newton suggested four possibilities for such an apparent visual condition, as observed in the 17th Century with all the stars and galaxies appearing to be “fixed” in place: an infinite universe in which the gravity pull was equal on all sides of a star or galaxy, a slowly collapsing universe, a slowly expanding universe, or a rotating or revolving universe.
I’m willing to accept the redshifts as a sign of an expanding universe, with the original big bang being some sort of “creation” process.
Regarding the expanding ether idea, I tend to think of the ether as being directly related to the gravity fields of each galaxy and astronomical body. There is a Taiwan physicists who has developed a new “local ether” theory that explains the “local ether” idea very well. In this theory, all the locally strong areas of the gravity fields act as a local light propagating medium near astronomical bodies, and essentially, the local gravity fields regulate the speed of light locally, at and near astronomical bodies like the earth:
qem.ee.nthu.edu.tw/outline.pdf
If the galaxies are moving apart, I don’t believe that space is “expanding”. Perhaps we could say the “volume of space is expanding”, but if the galaxies are separating I would call that “moving”, rather than “being carried along by expanding space”.
What would happen with the “local ether” theory in an expanding universe would be that the gravity fields would be “expanding” and “stretching”, i.e. becoming weaker, in the spaces between the galaxies.
I couldn’t care less about what the majority of cosmologists think. They’ve been covering up a lot of information for years, because of the simple fact that ever since the big bang idea was discovered, it “appears” that our viewing position is in the center of the expanding universe, and they can’t stand that position for us, for anti-theological reasons. So that’s why the “surface of the expanding balloon model” was invented in the first place. So the average guy won’t ask, “Hey, where is the ‘center’ of the universe?” Because, it looks as if we are in the center. I’m not saying that we are in the center. And I suspect that we are well away from the center, if there is one, but visually, it looks as if we are in the center, from our viewing position, and this is too much of a “Biblical” place for us to be, according to most of the professional astronomers. I think some of them are afraid that we actually <i>are</i> in the center.
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20 years 7 months ago #8762
by tuffy
Replied by tuffy on topic Reply from
what kills me is when a highly educated, well paid, professional "scientist", ususally an astronomer or cosmologist, makes a statement linking the alleged big bang with the creation or beginning of the universe, as if it were a scientific fact. not only is that a "personal opinion" and wild speculation but to this humble philosopher, absolutely erroneous. If the universe is infinite and eternal, like i suspect it is, the big bang or big bangs, if they happened, would be important only in terms of understanding the evolution of the universe.
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20 years 7 months ago #9589
by tuffy
Replied by tuffy on topic Reply from
if the universe if infinite, it would have no center.
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20 years 7 months ago #9405
by wisp
Replied by wisp on topic Reply from Kevin Harkess
David
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do you mean that you think the galaxies are not separating but the ether is "expanding"? And that's what produces the redshifts of the distant galaxies?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
My thoughts are:
The actual energy of light does not change. It is only when we measure it on earth that we record a change in frequency due to ether motion, which results in Doppler effect.
The galaxies are moving apart because they are formed from fragments that we blown apart during the BB. However, they are moving apart with similar speeds to that which they had shortly after the BB. They are not continuing to accelerate, and the ether's expansion is independent of current galaxy speeds.
tuffy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">if the universe if infinite, it would have no center.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
True, but a BB could be one of many, each with its own central point.
wisp
- particles of nothingness
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do you mean that you think the galaxies are not separating but the ether is "expanding"? And that's what produces the redshifts of the distant galaxies?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
My thoughts are:
The actual energy of light does not change. It is only when we measure it on earth that we record a change in frequency due to ether motion, which results in Doppler effect.
The galaxies are moving apart because they are formed from fragments that we blown apart during the BB. However, they are moving apart with similar speeds to that which they had shortly after the BB. They are not continuing to accelerate, and the ether's expansion is independent of current galaxy speeds.
tuffy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">if the universe if infinite, it would have no center.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
True, but a BB could be one of many, each with its own central point.
wisp
- particles of nothingness
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