MI collisions

The initial question has not been addressed. How do collisions take place in MM?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Skarp</i>
<br />The initial question has not been addressed. How do collisions take place in MM?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">There are two answers, depending on your area of interest.

<b>(1) Single-scale perspective:</b> At any scale, wherever the local density of matter greatly exceeds the background density, the principle that "no two bodies may occupy the same place at the same time" applies, and any attempt to violate that principle results in a contact collision producing either an inelastic partial or total merger or an elastic rebound.

<b>(2) All-scales perspective:</b> Bodies that appear solid and act solid at any one scale are actually composed of an infinitude of smaller entities on smaller scales. But it is not necessary for bodies to actually make contact in order for them to act as if they did. For example, a comet approaching the Sun will be sling-shotted around the Sun by gravity and sent back in its original direction, or in some other direction, just as if it had an elastic rebound. Two galaxies "colliding" will act as if they had an inelastic collision even though no two stars within either galaxy actually collide.

In general, forces such as gravity and electrostatic force and magnetism can make bodies appear to collide and act as if they did collide even when they did not. Those forces are caused by smaller entities such as elysons and gravitons that appear to make contact, but actually do not because of smaller-scale forces we have yet to discover. And so on, ad infinitum. We never need actual contact collisions because smaller-scale forces can always simulate contact collisions, and every scale has such forces acting. -|Tom|-

the only problem here,that i can see at least,is how do we explain high energy collisions? which apparently give us such particles as mesons,quarks etc.

interesting enough i would like to see these collisions at very low temperatures(at least-200 Kelvin but really lower temps.). i suspect there might be a shattering affect(theoretical for sure).however, perhaps interesting results.for instance can energy be shattered? into pieces? if not, why not? for would they(pieces)not hold their energy in all it's forms(frozen in time,sort of bits of!(no change))? for if the overall temp. of the universe is,if i remember right,is about 3 degrees Kelvin(can't remember where i got this temp.from)perhaps the infinity of scales is based on temp.(at least on the smaller scales).

just thinking!!

Tom

Your last post seems to say that no collisions take place (only appear to make contact). Yet MM says thats how things move if I'm not mistaken.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Those forces are caused by smaller entities such as elysons and gravitons that appear to make contact, but actually do not because of smaller-scale forces we have yet to discover. And so on, ad infinitum.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Ad infinitum - This presents a problem in that there is no cause for effect. If the chain of scale never ends ... no actual body will present itself to show cause for effect. Taken to completion in a reductionist approach of scale (ad infinitum), the presentation should equal nothing at all. Are you to say that at the end of this chain of scale (ad infinitum) .... collisions take place?

By North
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">the only problem here,that i can see at least,is how do we explain high energy collisions?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">In my thoughts of the universe (There are no collisions). The universe is a purely geometric occurrence. There is no substance available to collide. A geometric entity can pass through another geometric entity, but not without effect. In the case of particles - we have what could be called a geometric dance by which more than one geometric entity is entwined in a sort of love fest. In the case of a super collider - It's like sending in a gemetric entity to cut in. This is not a collision, but tantamount to a geometric entity saying to another ..... be my guest....dance the night away.... I'm gonna go out for some punch.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Skarp</i>
<br />Your last post seems to say that no collisions take place (only appear to make contact). Yet MM says thats how things move if I'm not mistaken.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That is not what I said. Collisions do take place on every scale. They are simply collisions produced by smaller scale forces, not by contact. I gave two examples.

Moreover, collisions have nothing to do with why things move in the first place, if that is what your second sentence meant. (Its meaning was unclear.)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Ad infinitum - This presents a problem in that there is no cause for effect. If the chain of scale never ends ... no actual body will present itself to show cause for effect.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">You must be thinking of earlier discussions. The argument I made here is that contactless collisions occur on every scale, without exception. To even begin to understand MM, you must get rid of the notion that there is some ultimate or base scale where things are different. In MM, everywhere in time, everyplace in space, and every scale are all fundamentally the same as our time, place, and scale. You could go down a million orders of magnitude in scale and the universe would look fundamentally the same, differing only in the details. And causality applies at each and every scale, no exceptions.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Taken to completion in a reductionist approach of scale (ad infinitum), the presentation should equal nothing at all. Are you to say that at the end of this chain of scale (ad infinitum) .... collisions take place?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Real collisions take place at every scale. But there is never any contact, nor is any ever needed.

This argument about scale (unsuprisingly) is closely parallel to previous arguments about space being infinite and time being eternal. In fact, we had this identical discussion about First Cause versus no first cause, didn't we? The ultimate resolution is the same. Infinite series can have a finite sum. And First Causes require a miracle, whereas eternity does not.

The same precepts apply to scale. Bodies that are infinitely divisible can act solid in the limit. And having a base particle or scale requires a miracle, whereas infinite divisibility does not. -|Tom|-