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Requiem for Relativity
- Joe Keller
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14 years 3 weeks ago #21000
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />Dr Joe, ...how would the particles you want to exist work - they seem to violate natural laws in some ways in order to merge...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the post. You make several relevant points, but this one hits the nail on the head. I'm hoping that though the behavior of real particles would differ from mine in several important ways, those differences would not affect the final eccentricity much.
- Joe Keller
<br />Dr Joe, ...how would the particles you want to exist work - they seem to violate natural laws in some ways in order to merge...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the post. You make several relevant points, but this one hits the nail on the head. I'm hoping that though the behavior of real particles would differ from mine in several important ways, those differences would not affect the final eccentricity much.
- Joe Keller
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14 years 3 weeks ago #21001
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Dr Joe, The real final structure would be a galactic disk and lesser mass particles would be captured by greater mass particles-right? The lesser structures within the galactic disk such as our solar system or any other star system would be bound to the disk structure which must have some unknown effect on our Kepler model. Our star has a tiny effect on the galactic structure which might be covered by Newton's 3rd law. If you find action you can assume it will be observed in some other form in some other place.
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14 years 3 weeks ago #24169
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
The two relations between Barbarossa's orbital parameters, and fundamental astrophysical constants
I mention both these relations in recent posts but will restate them here:
1. speed / acceleration = A * time
Here the speed is sqrt(k*T/m) = 14996.77 cm/s, where k is Boltzmann's constant, 1.38053/10^16 erg/deg, T is the cosmic microwave background temperature, estimated as 2.72553deg Kelvin; and m is the mass of the hydrogen atom, 1.00797 atomic mass units = 1.67302/10^24 gm. This is the isothermal speed of sound in atomic hydrogen, however rarified, at the CMB temperature. The acceleration is the Hubble acceleration, i.e. the Hubble parameter times the speed of light: H0 * c; in this post, I'll find the value of the Hubble parameter that fits both equations. The time is the Barbarossa period; my best estimate is from the Egyptian & Mayan calendars, 6339.5 tropical yr, adjusted to Newcomb's mean tropical year during the interval 4328BC - 2012AD: 6339.5yr*365.2424d/yr = 2.00055*10^11 sec (the 1.8 day correction for Earth's orbital eccentricity's effect on this solstice-to-solstice time, is insignificant at this precision). "A" is an adjustable parameter (see below).
2. speed * A * time = distance
The speed and time are as above. The distance is Barbarossa's latus rectum, a*(1-e^2) = 343.84AU * (1-0.610596^2) = 3.22619*10^15 cm. The parameters of Barbarossa's orbit are from my own work; the value of the CMB constant is as I recall it from a recently published journal article; and other physical constants are from the CRC Handbook, 44th ed., 1962.
To exactly satisfy both equations simultaneously, requires two adjustable parameters. The first adjustable parameter is the Hubble parameter, which is known observationally only to within ~5%. The second adjustable parameter is the constant, A, by which Barbarossa's period is multiplied.
Eqn. #2 implies that A = 1.075331 = approx. 1 + 1/13.
With this value of A, eqn. #1 implies that the acceleration is 6.97118/10^8 cm/s^2 = 71.7556 km/s/Mpc. This is the 72 km/s/Mpc value for H0 which long has been the most accepted, and still is within the error bar of the latest best Hubble telescope effort.
I mention both these relations in recent posts but will restate them here:
1. speed / acceleration = A * time
Here the speed is sqrt(k*T/m) = 14996.77 cm/s, where k is Boltzmann's constant, 1.38053/10^16 erg/deg, T is the cosmic microwave background temperature, estimated as 2.72553deg Kelvin; and m is the mass of the hydrogen atom, 1.00797 atomic mass units = 1.67302/10^24 gm. This is the isothermal speed of sound in atomic hydrogen, however rarified, at the CMB temperature. The acceleration is the Hubble acceleration, i.e. the Hubble parameter times the speed of light: H0 * c; in this post, I'll find the value of the Hubble parameter that fits both equations. The time is the Barbarossa period; my best estimate is from the Egyptian & Mayan calendars, 6339.5 tropical yr, adjusted to Newcomb's mean tropical year during the interval 4328BC - 2012AD: 6339.5yr*365.2424d/yr = 2.00055*10^11 sec (the 1.8 day correction for Earth's orbital eccentricity's effect on this solstice-to-solstice time, is insignificant at this precision). "A" is an adjustable parameter (see below).
2. speed * A * time = distance
The speed and time are as above. The distance is Barbarossa's latus rectum, a*(1-e^2) = 343.84AU * (1-0.610596^2) = 3.22619*10^15 cm. The parameters of Barbarossa's orbit are from my own work; the value of the CMB constant is as I recall it from a recently published journal article; and other physical constants are from the CRC Handbook, 44th ed., 1962.
To exactly satisfy both equations simultaneously, requires two adjustable parameters. The first adjustable parameter is the Hubble parameter, which is known observationally only to within ~5%. The second adjustable parameter is the constant, A, by which Barbarossa's period is multiplied.
Eqn. #2 implies that A = 1.075331 = approx. 1 + 1/13.
With this value of A, eqn. #1 implies that the acceleration is 6.97118/10^8 cm/s^2 = 71.7556 km/s/Mpc. This is the 72 km/s/Mpc value for H0 which long has been the most accepted, and still is within the error bar of the latest best Hubble telescope effort.
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14 years 3 weeks ago #21002
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
More reasons a binary's eccentricity should be ~0.6
In my Oct. 28, 2010, post, I explain that if all the original particles have the same angular momentum, and if their mean orbital energy is zero, and if the orbital energies follow a Boltzmann distribution, then, if all the bound (i.e., negative orbital energy) particles agglomerate without loss of orbital energy, the eccentricity will be 0.64655. Particles are likelier to agglomerate when they intersect with similar velocities; at similar velocities, rather little orbital energy is lost. Some of the orbital energy lost when the particles agglomerate, might be recoverable (e.g. orbital energy of one particle about the other). Yet some orbital energy will be lost, and this will cause the final eccentricity to be < 0.64655.
If the apses of the original particles are distributed symmetrically in the plane, then the final eccentricity (the eccentricity after all particles are agglomerated into one) must be zero, because there is no preferred direction. On the other hand, Barbarossa's aphelion aligns with the galactic center, so, plausibly the original particles all aligned with the galactic center for the same reason; let's suppose that the original particles did have the same aphelion direction (and the same angular momentum vector).
The simplest particle interaction, is that of point masses, as discussed in the dynamics chapter of most freshman college physics texts. Particles with the same aphelion direction and angular momentum vector, have the same latus rectum segment, and for different eccentricities, intersect only at the ends of the latus rectum. At the latus rectum, the potential energy is the same for all particles because the position is the same; the energy of transverse velocity is the same because the angular momenta are the same; only the energies of radial velocity differ, proportional to eccentricity^2. The eccentricity is proportional to the radial velocity; so the mean eccentricity, will be the eccentricity of the agglomeration. This mean eccentricity, e, can be found as the ratio of two integrals:
Numerator: integral of d(e^2)*exp(-e^2)*e, from 0 to 1
Denominator: integral of d(e^2)*exp(-e^2), from 0 to 1
(The exponential function gives a Boltzmann distribution, with mean corresponding to eccentricity = 1.) Integrating the numerator numerically (use the substitution u = e^2), I find
eccentricity = 0.59948... . The eccentricity might be higher than this if some particles in hyperbolic orbits agglomerate also, on their one-time pass through the system; this describes Barbarossa (e = 0.6106 according to the orbit I fit to the sky surveys last year).
In my Oct. 28, 2010, post, I explain that if all the original particles have the same angular momentum, and if their mean orbital energy is zero, and if the orbital energies follow a Boltzmann distribution, then, if all the bound (i.e., negative orbital energy) particles agglomerate without loss of orbital energy, the eccentricity will be 0.64655. Particles are likelier to agglomerate when they intersect with similar velocities; at similar velocities, rather little orbital energy is lost. Some of the orbital energy lost when the particles agglomerate, might be recoverable (e.g. orbital energy of one particle about the other). Yet some orbital energy will be lost, and this will cause the final eccentricity to be < 0.64655.
If the apses of the original particles are distributed symmetrically in the plane, then the final eccentricity (the eccentricity after all particles are agglomerated into one) must be zero, because there is no preferred direction. On the other hand, Barbarossa's aphelion aligns with the galactic center, so, plausibly the original particles all aligned with the galactic center for the same reason; let's suppose that the original particles did have the same aphelion direction (and the same angular momentum vector).
The simplest particle interaction, is that of point masses, as discussed in the dynamics chapter of most freshman college physics texts. Particles with the same aphelion direction and angular momentum vector, have the same latus rectum segment, and for different eccentricities, intersect only at the ends of the latus rectum. At the latus rectum, the potential energy is the same for all particles because the position is the same; the energy of transverse velocity is the same because the angular momenta are the same; only the energies of radial velocity differ, proportional to eccentricity^2. The eccentricity is proportional to the radial velocity; so the mean eccentricity, will be the eccentricity of the agglomeration. This mean eccentricity, e, can be found as the ratio of two integrals:
Numerator: integral of d(e^2)*exp(-e^2)*e, from 0 to 1
Denominator: integral of d(e^2)*exp(-e^2), from 0 to 1
(The exponential function gives a Boltzmann distribution, with mean corresponding to eccentricity = 1.) Integrating the numerator numerically (use the substitution u = e^2), I find
eccentricity = 0.59948... . The eccentricity might be higher than this if some particles in hyperbolic orbits agglomerate also, on their one-time pass through the system; this describes Barbarossa (e = 0.6106 according to the orbit I fit to the sky surveys last year).
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14 years 2 weeks ago #21003
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
Hi Joe, with Jim I'd like to see that 2/3 but I think we have to allow for the fact that our orbit round the galactic centre is not going to be a perfect circle. In which case the apses will sometimes lead or lag by a tiny amount. i can't help thinking that this has something to do wuth the neutrino, that temperature of about 2.752 Kelvin looks to e in the mass range of the neutrino. We have basically hydrogen atoms orbiting in a sea of neutrinos with little interaction but won't there be slightly more neutrinos coming from galactic centre? A particle diving in an elliptical orbit through this soup wouldn't see the mass "above" it, it would want to describe a roseate (it would look like the petals of a flower) orbi, all things being equal but that slight excess of neutrinos could tend to lock it.
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14 years 2 weeks ago #24170
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Well, there must be a way to determine the angular momentum of the sun relative to the galatic center and using that to determine the orbit of the sun around the galaxy. You guys have unused observational details of the Milky Way that can be useful to prove your hypothesis
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