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The entropy of systems
16 years 9 months ago #20652
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
I found something interesting on alpha particle scattering:
dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/webdocs/Radioactivi...f-Alpha-Scatter.html
"What Becquerel did is assume E is constant, so this left him with the unpleasant thought that either v or M had to increase. Since it is very hard to visualize the alpha particle SPEEDING UP as it traveled from its source, Bequerel decided that M must increase, that the alpha particle picked up stray matter as it traveled along."
Stoat,
Do you realize how wrong they were?
<i>M is varying as E changes from a particle to a wave.</i>
Maybe what they mean by mass increase is a temporary condition when the atoms come apart. For example: a match stick on fire. The flame (atoms in the wood reacting with the air as energies of both are varying) has more volume(mass) than its original configuration as wood.
dbhs.wvusd.k12.ca.us/webdocs/Radioactivi...f-Alpha-Scatter.html
"What Becquerel did is assume E is constant, so this left him with the unpleasant thought that either v or M had to increase. Since it is very hard to visualize the alpha particle SPEEDING UP as it traveled from its source, Bequerel decided that M must increase, that the alpha particle picked up stray matter as it traveled along."
Stoat,
Do you realize how wrong they were?
<i>M is varying as E changes from a particle to a wave.</i>
Maybe what they mean by mass increase is a temporary condition when the atoms come apart. For example: a match stick on fire. The flame (atoms in the wood reacting with the air as energies of both are varying) has more volume(mass) than its original configuration as wood.
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16 years 9 months ago #20871
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
Again from Wikipedia:
Radioactive decay...
"A nucleus (or any excited system in quantum mechanics) is unstable, and can thus spontaneously stabilize to a less-excited system. This process is driven by entropy considerations: the energy does not change, but at the end of the process, the total energy is more diffused in spacial volume. The resulting transformation alters the structure of the nucleus. Such a reaction is thus a nuclear reaction, in contrast to chemical reactions, which also are driven by entropy, but which involve changes in the arrangement of the outer electrons of atoms, rather than their nuclei."
(in the first sentence, It should rather say <i>spontaneously change</i>...)
The spacial volume mentioned above could very well explain the entropy change and transformations of nuclei/electrons during any combustion process (size of flame for example).
Radioactive decay...
"A nucleus (or any excited system in quantum mechanics) is unstable, and can thus spontaneously stabilize to a less-excited system. This process is driven by entropy considerations: the energy does not change, but at the end of the process, the total energy is more diffused in spacial volume. The resulting transformation alters the structure of the nucleus. Such a reaction is thus a nuclear reaction, in contrast to chemical reactions, which also are driven by entropy, but which involve changes in the arrangement of the outer electrons of atoms, rather than their nuclei."
(in the first sentence, It should rather say <i>spontaneously change</i>...)
The spacial volume mentioned above could very well explain the entropy change and transformations of nuclei/electrons during any combustion process (size of flame for example).
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16 years 9 months ago #18156
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
Here is more on George Gamow and alpha decay:
www2.kutl.kyushu-u.ac.jp/seminar/MicroWo..._E/alpha_decay_E.htm
"The alpha decay of atoms is nothing else than the decay of an atomic nucleus by radiating alpha particles."
There is a table showing the varying half life of the alpha particle with respect to time vs emitted energy.
How does the half life of this particle vary with respect to a change in position caused by its motion from initial (emitted) energy state to final energy state?
The half life of these particles could fall to zero quite rapidly !
In the previous post, nuclear reactions and chemical reactions are treated separately. I think the motion of the electrons can affect the nucleus of the atom and the change in energy state of the nucleus can also influence the motion of the electrons.
Gravity is a weak force which acts on both.
www2.kutl.kyushu-u.ac.jp/seminar/MicroWo..._E/alpha_decay_E.htm
"The alpha decay of atoms is nothing else than the decay of an atomic nucleus by radiating alpha particles."
There is a table showing the varying half life of the alpha particle with respect to time vs emitted energy.
How does the half life of this particle vary with respect to a change in position caused by its motion from initial (emitted) energy state to final energy state?
The half life of these particles could fall to zero quite rapidly !
In the previous post, nuclear reactions and chemical reactions are treated separately. I think the motion of the electrons can affect the nucleus of the atom and the change in energy state of the nucleus can also influence the motion of the electrons.
Gravity is a weak force which acts on both.
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16 years 9 months ago #20499
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
Stoat,
1) Do you think heat is produced by molecular motion only?
2) Or is heat the result of the atom releasing its energy (which also causes motion)?
In 1): entropy is caused by the motion of electrons (ex: ice and water). The universe is in equilibrium but not certain what causes acceleration. Gravity permeates space but still at a loss to explain
The motion of bodies with time.
In 2): entropy is caused by the varying energy state of the atom which varies the motion of the electrons. The universe is not in equilibrium and this is what causes its acceleration. Gravity is a property of matter and its changing energy state with time (which also causes motion).
In your opinion, what is heat?
1) Do you think heat is produced by molecular motion only?
2) Or is heat the result of the atom releasing its energy (which also causes motion)?
In 1): entropy is caused by the motion of electrons (ex: ice and water). The universe is in equilibrium but not certain what causes acceleration. Gravity permeates space but still at a loss to explain
The motion of bodies with time.
In 2): entropy is caused by the varying energy state of the atom which varies the motion of the electrons. The universe is not in equilibrium and this is what causes its acceleration. Gravity is a property of matter and its changing energy state with time (which also causes motion).
In your opinion, what is heat?
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16 years 9 months ago #16175
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
Hi GD, sorry I've just got back to the board, I've been moving house. Heat, what is it? As kinetic energy it must obviously include the processes of radioactive decay. Something that has to be allowed for when we look at the interior temperature of planets for instance. But we are now at the "coal face" of a crisis in physics. it's a bit of a mare's nest. I suppose the obvious first point to look at is the entropy of waves and the entropy of particles. Wave entropy describes a hyperbola, infinities are involved. I think that's why Einstein insisted on the particle nature of the photon, simply to remove infinity.
On your point about the half life of a particle falling to zero. That would have to mean that it ceases to exist in our universe. So it changes into something else. I don't think the concept is helpful, as it almost suggests a cosmic reservoir of of any sort of potential particle. To me that smacks of bad metaphysics.
Changing the subject slightly, with moving I was knackered, so went to bed early. I decided to just grab any book form a plastic bag and read a while. I grabbed the sci fi book cities in flight by James Blish. To explain the "spindizzy drive" he gives a made up equation called the Blackett Dirac equation. So on a whim I went to the library to look up on the net this guy Blackett. He really did exist and his equation is G^2 = 8Pc / U Where P is the magnetic moment, c the speed of light, and U the angular momentum. So I thought I'll just replace the speed of light with my value for the speed of gravity. Which is 1.16464217444E 25 The magnetic moment for a proton is 1.410606633E-26 The two almost cancel each other out, which I think is interesting. Doing the sums I get an angular momentum for the proton of about 3E 20 which is perhaps a bit slow but it's in the ball park .At the moment. what's of interest to me, is the closeness of my speed of gravity to the magnetic moment, they nearly balance. [8D]
On your point about the half life of a particle falling to zero. That would have to mean that it ceases to exist in our universe. So it changes into something else. I don't think the concept is helpful, as it almost suggests a cosmic reservoir of of any sort of potential particle. To me that smacks of bad metaphysics.
Changing the subject slightly, with moving I was knackered, so went to bed early. I decided to just grab any book form a plastic bag and read a while. I grabbed the sci fi book cities in flight by James Blish. To explain the "spindizzy drive" he gives a made up equation called the Blackett Dirac equation. So on a whim I went to the library to look up on the net this guy Blackett. He really did exist and his equation is G^2 = 8Pc / U Where P is the magnetic moment, c the speed of light, and U the angular momentum. So I thought I'll just replace the speed of light with my value for the speed of gravity. Which is 1.16464217444E 25 The magnetic moment for a proton is 1.410606633E-26 The two almost cancel each other out, which I think is interesting. Doing the sums I get an angular momentum for the proton of about 3E 20 which is perhaps a bit slow but it's in the ball park .At the moment. what's of interest to me, is the closeness of my speed of gravity to the magnetic moment, they nearly balance. [8D]
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16 years 9 months ago #14897
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stoat</i>
<br /> 1) I suppose the obvious first point to look at is the entropy of waves and the entropy of particles. Wave entropy describes a hyperbola, infinities are involved. I think that's why Einstein insisted on the particle nature of the photon, simply to remove infinity.
2) On your point about the half life of a particle falling to zero. That would have to mean that it ceases to exist in our universe. So it changes into something else. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hello Stoat,
1) A wave travels a certain distance with time and its trajectory curves around massive bodies in space, therefore infinities are not involved. The entropy of a wave would mean that its frequency changes as it moves past massive bodies in space for example.
Or another example could be how a much bigger mass (Earth) affects the energy state (frequency, coupling force, decay, free radicals, mutations...)of atoms in your body.
I did not understand what you meant by: "infinities are involved"?
2) Yes, it ceases to exist as a particle and changes into a wave.
The energy is still there, but in a disordered form.
Is this not how you see it?
<br /> 1) I suppose the obvious first point to look at is the entropy of waves and the entropy of particles. Wave entropy describes a hyperbola, infinities are involved. I think that's why Einstein insisted on the particle nature of the photon, simply to remove infinity.
2) On your point about the half life of a particle falling to zero. That would have to mean that it ceases to exist in our universe. So it changes into something else. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Hello Stoat,
1) A wave travels a certain distance with time and its trajectory curves around massive bodies in space, therefore infinities are not involved. The entropy of a wave would mean that its frequency changes as it moves past massive bodies in space for example.
Or another example could be how a much bigger mass (Earth) affects the energy state (frequency, coupling force, decay, free radicals, mutations...)of atoms in your body.
I did not understand what you meant by: "infinities are involved"?
2) Yes, it ceases to exist as a particle and changes into a wave.
The energy is still there, but in a disordered form.
Is this not how you see it?
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