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Possible observation of quasar proper motion
- tvanflandern
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17 years 10 months ago #18584
by tvanflandern
Reply from Tom Van Flandern was created by tvanflandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mafischer</i>
<br />Does anybody know whether this is a topic worthy of further investigation?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Definitely worthy. But career-risky. The person who finally brings down the redshift-distance paradigm for quasars will have to defend against the attacks of many "authorities" who have much to lose. But it would be a marvelous gift to Halton Arp, especially considering the attacks he has suffered in his lifetime.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If so, does anybody know where to find data sets that contain records of these apparent motions? The geodetic VLBI data sets I have been analyzing contain no such information.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">You will have to ask others collecting such data privately. Many of them would be happy to provide the raw data, but not to be the one to say what the data means. -|Tom|-
<br />Does anybody know whether this is a topic worthy of further investigation?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Definitely worthy. But career-risky. The person who finally brings down the redshift-distance paradigm for quasars will have to defend against the attacks of many "authorities" who have much to lose. But it would be a marvelous gift to Halton Arp, especially considering the attacks he has suffered in his lifetime.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If so, does anybody know where to find data sets that contain records of these apparent motions? The geodetic VLBI data sets I have been analyzing contain no such information.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">You will have to ask others collecting such data privately. Many of them would be happy to provide the raw data, but not to be the one to say what the data means. -|Tom|-
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17 years 10 months ago #19109
by JMB
Replied by JMB on topic Reply from Jacques Moret-Bailly
I agree with Tom Van Flandern. Be ready to receive harsh comments, insults...
Your work is very useful, although the best arguments do not work.
The observation of the quasars (variation of their intensities) shows that they are small objects.
In addition to Arp's arguments, there are:
- Kotov observed that the brightness of the stars have a periodicity of 160 minutes which is not subject to the expansion of the Universe...
- The objects observed close to the quasars have anomalous redshifts
- To explain observations which deny the value of the BB, a lot of patches are put on usual physics: variation of the fine structure constant, existence of dark matter, new generation of isotopes...
A problem is that, for a long time, an optical effect named ISRS was unknown of the astrophysicists although it was observed for the first time in 1968. This effect increases, by frequency shifts, the entropy of a set of electromagnetic beams simultaneously refracted by a convenient matter, without any perturbation of the wave surfaces and any blurring of the spectra. Therefore, usually, light is redshifted and radio waves are blueshifted (in particular, the thermal radiation is heated). This effect is easily observed in the labs using femtosecond laser pulses, but it is (roughly) inversely proportional to the cube of the length of the pulses. As ordinary light is made of nanosecond pulses, the intensity of the effect is divided by a big factor (10^15), so that astronomical paths are required. The ISRS effect using ordinary light is renamed, to avoid confusions: CREIL. It explains completely the spectra of the quasars, the periodicities of the high redshifts, the proximity effect (the objects observed close to the quasars have often "anomalous" redshifts), the "anomalous acceleration" of the Pioneer 10 and 11 probes, the bounding of the CMB to the ecliptic ...
Your work is very useful, although the best arguments do not work.
The observation of the quasars (variation of their intensities) shows that they are small objects.
In addition to Arp's arguments, there are:
- Kotov observed that the brightness of the stars have a periodicity of 160 minutes which is not subject to the expansion of the Universe...
- The objects observed close to the quasars have anomalous redshifts
- To explain observations which deny the value of the BB, a lot of patches are put on usual physics: variation of the fine structure constant, existence of dark matter, new generation of isotopes...
A problem is that, for a long time, an optical effect named ISRS was unknown of the astrophysicists although it was observed for the first time in 1968. This effect increases, by frequency shifts, the entropy of a set of electromagnetic beams simultaneously refracted by a convenient matter, without any perturbation of the wave surfaces and any blurring of the spectra. Therefore, usually, light is redshifted and radio waves are blueshifted (in particular, the thermal radiation is heated). This effect is easily observed in the labs using femtosecond laser pulses, but it is (roughly) inversely proportional to the cube of the length of the pulses. As ordinary light is made of nanosecond pulses, the intensity of the effect is divided by a big factor (10^15), so that astronomical paths are required. The ISRS effect using ordinary light is renamed, to avoid confusions: CREIL. It explains completely the spectra of the quasars, the periodicities of the high redshifts, the proximity effect (the objects observed close to the quasars have often "anomalous" redshifts), the "anomalous acceleration" of the Pioneer 10 and 11 probes, the bounding of the CMB to the ecliptic ...
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17 years 9 months ago #19373
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
It would be a very improrant event if proper motion is observed in quasars. How can you tell if the motion is at the quasar rather than the structure existing between here and there? There is some data that may of use(or not)if you use LAF for a search.
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17 years 9 months ago #19110
by JMB
Replied by JMB on topic Reply from Jacques Moret-Bailly
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />It would be a very improrant event if proper motion is observed in quasars.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes, it would be important. Halton Arp observed alignments of a galaxy and quasars; it seems that these objects are produced by an explosion. Other proofs of a displacement of quasars should be searched, but I am not competent; people who think that the quasars are very far will not try to observe displacements.
<br />It would be a very improrant event if proper motion is observed in quasars.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes, it would be important. Halton Arp observed alignments of a galaxy and quasars; it seems that these objects are produced by an explosion. Other proofs of a displacement of quasars should be searched, but I am not competent; people who think that the quasars are very far will not try to observe displacements.
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