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My pareidolia knows no bounds.
18 years 2 months ago #17676
by rderosa
Replied by rderosa on topic Reply from Richard DeRosa
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br />I don't agree. The collapse south of the east eye socket seems sufficient to displace the east eye slightly southward.-Tom|-<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Do you know if anyone ever did a MOLA study of the face, itself? Like Professor Levasseur did of the Profile Image region? That would explain it, I think. (Assuming any of this is true.) For instance, I can visualize the forehead collapsing in towards the planet surface, and that also might accomplish getting the eye farther south.
rd
<br />I don't agree. The collapse south of the east eye socket seems sufficient to displace the east eye slightly southward.-Tom|-<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Do you know if anyone ever did a MOLA study of the face, itself? Like Professor Levasseur did of the Profile Image region? That would explain it, I think. (Assuming any of this is true.) For instance, I can visualize the forehead collapsing in towards the planet surface, and that also might accomplish getting the eye farther south.
rd
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18 years 2 months ago #16126
by rderosa
Replied by rderosa on topic Reply from Richard DeRosa
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rderosa</i>
<br />I think this is an important point. It all goes back to the original Cydonia face.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So, my conclusion to this recent demonstration (with counter arguments by Tom), is that <b>the face could be</b> artificial after all. That's as far as I'm probably ever going to be willing to go, before getting definitive proof, either by proving it's metal, or getting 10 times better resolution. There' a rule that's used when manufacturing any measuring device, whether it's a 29 cent ruler, or a million dollar microscope, called the 10% rule. Simply stated, it means that in order to measure an inch precisely, your measuring device must be capable of measuring tenths of inches. Or, in order to measure nanometer precision, the tool must be capable of measuring angstroms.
The same is true here. Let's get 10 times better resolution (with color) than the object we want to see. <b>Then</b> we'll know for sure. That applies at all scales. In other words, if we really want to see the west eye, we have to be able to see one tenth of it clearly (see Sparky on earlier pages, or reference pics). If we just want to see the face as a whole, then we only have to be able to see one tenth of the face clearly.
Here's a demo. This is what we currently have. This is one tenth of the west eye in E0300824:
]
This is what we would need, assuming this was the same size of terrain:
]
Either that, or we're going to have to find the proverbial watch.
rd
<br />I think this is an important point. It all goes back to the original Cydonia face.
So, my conclusion to this recent demonstration (with counter arguments by Tom), is that <b>the face could be</b> artificial after all. That's as far as I'm probably ever going to be willing to go, before getting definitive proof, either by proving it's metal, or getting 10 times better resolution. There' a rule that's used when manufacturing any measuring device, whether it's a 29 cent ruler, or a million dollar microscope, called the 10% rule. Simply stated, it means that in order to measure an inch precisely, your measuring device must be capable of measuring tenths of inches. Or, in order to measure nanometer precision, the tool must be capable of measuring angstroms.
The same is true here. Let's get 10 times better resolution (with color) than the object we want to see. <b>Then</b> we'll know for sure. That applies at all scales. In other words, if we really want to see the west eye, we have to be able to see one tenth of it clearly (see Sparky on earlier pages, or reference pics). If we just want to see the face as a whole, then we only have to be able to see one tenth of the face clearly.
Here's a demo. This is what we currently have. This is one tenth of the west eye in E0300824:
This is what we would need, assuming this was the same size of terrain:
Either that, or we're going to have to find the proverbial watch.
rd
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- tvanflandern
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18 years 2 months ago #16127
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rderosa</i>
<br />Do you know if anyone ever did a MOLA study of the face, itself?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">To my knowledge, MOLA has made no Face overflights, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. In any case, while it has great range resolution, it has poor spacial resolution, so the answer to our question (about supposed east-side collapse) is probably not going to be available from MOLA even if a Face overflight occurs. -|Tom|-
<br />Do you know if anyone ever did a MOLA study of the face, itself?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">To my knowledge, MOLA has made no Face overflights, claims to the contrary notwithstanding. In any case, while it has great range resolution, it has poor spacial resolution, so the answer to our question (about supposed east-side collapse) is probably not going to be available from MOLA even if a Face overflight occurs. -|Tom|-
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- neilderosa
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18 years 2 months ago #16128
by neilderosa
Replied by neilderosa on topic Reply from Neil DeRosa
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Neil,
Are you saying that there was something other than politics in the portion of Fred's post that I deleted? If so I apologize. I (thought I) looked it over pretty well, but I suppose I could have missed something.
(Normally I make a copy of things I delete, but I seem to have skipped that step in this case.) [LB]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The way I read it, Fred being an art expert immediately knew the Profile Girl was real art, but what he characterized as “mediocre” art. In doing so he implied its artificiality, but being bound by his beliefs he instinctively began to claim conspiracy or official corruption, in so many words. That was what you deleted as "politics." My feeling was that having inadvertently admitted it was real, (meaning man made), it <i>had</i> to be a hoax, because “the Martians did it" must be ruled out by definition. This is the standard position driven by bias. Others have also gone down that path in recent months. I also entertained the hoax theory briefly—but for different reasons.
The strong bias of the skeptics is the reason why I think it is useless to have this debate. Despite what I may have said in frustration, there is a certain dogged and consistent logic in their position. It’s all about maintaining their skepticism at all costs. I think this observation has a direct bearing on the nature of the debate now taking place. I am not saying that the skeptics can never be convinced. Science always convinces when the facts becomes undeniable, but I think it is abundantly clear that it can not be done with the level of evidence available today.
However I will have more evidence to present from time to time. So I will persist and not retire, under the assumption that there are many readers who, although they may be silent participants, they are not hardened skeptics.
Neil
Are you saying that there was something other than politics in the portion of Fred's post that I deleted? If so I apologize. I (thought I) looked it over pretty well, but I suppose I could have missed something.
(Normally I make a copy of things I delete, but I seem to have skipped that step in this case.) [LB]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The way I read it, Fred being an art expert immediately knew the Profile Girl was real art, but what he characterized as “mediocre” art. In doing so he implied its artificiality, but being bound by his beliefs he instinctively began to claim conspiracy or official corruption, in so many words. That was what you deleted as "politics." My feeling was that having inadvertently admitted it was real, (meaning man made), it <i>had</i> to be a hoax, because “the Martians did it" must be ruled out by definition. This is the standard position driven by bias. Others have also gone down that path in recent months. I also entertained the hoax theory briefly—but for different reasons.
The strong bias of the skeptics is the reason why I think it is useless to have this debate. Despite what I may have said in frustration, there is a certain dogged and consistent logic in their position. It’s all about maintaining their skepticism at all costs. I think this observation has a direct bearing on the nature of the debate now taking place. I am not saying that the skeptics can never be convinced. Science always convinces when the facts becomes undeniable, but I think it is abundantly clear that it can not be done with the level of evidence available today.
However I will have more evidence to present from time to time. So I will persist and not retire, under the assumption that there are many readers who, although they may be silent participants, they are not hardened skeptics.
Neil
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18 years 2 months ago #16242
by rderosa
Replied by rderosa on topic Reply from Richard DeRosa
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by neilderosa</i>
<br />The way I read it, Fred being an art expert immediately knew the Profile Girl was real art, but what he characterized as “mediocre” art. In doing so he implied its artificiality, but being bound by his beliefs he instinctively began to claim conspiracy or official corruption, in so many words. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What he actually said was: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since you asked... <b>the photo seems natural enough to me</b>, but could be done by a half decent "artist." - pareidoliac<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">See page 8. Larry didn't delete that sentence. The way I interpret his statement is that his first impression is "natural", but admitted that "it could be done by a half decent artist". To interpret that sentence the other way around is an example of "confirmation bias", in my opinion:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>confirmation bias:</b> the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions.- Wilkipedia<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
rd
<br />The way I read it, Fred being an art expert immediately knew the Profile Girl was real art, but what he characterized as “mediocre” art. In doing so he implied its artificiality, but being bound by his beliefs he instinctively began to claim conspiracy or official corruption, in so many words. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
What he actually said was: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Since you asked... <b>the photo seems natural enough to me</b>, but could be done by a half decent "artist." - pareidoliac<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">See page 8. Larry didn't delete that sentence. The way I interpret his statement is that his first impression is "natural", but admitted that "it could be done by a half decent artist". To interpret that sentence the other way around is an example of "confirmation bias", in my opinion:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>confirmation bias:</b> the tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions.- Wilkipedia<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
rd
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18 years 2 months ago #17371
by Samizdat
Replied by Samizdat on topic Reply from Frederick Wilson
Let's strive for consistency on this site, shall we? If the site is closed to sociopolitical topics, the owner's and moderators' averring that this is a physics site only, then the site should be closed also to psychological topics.
[political link deleted -- tvf]
[political link deleted -- tvf]
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