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Mal Education - Motivation to Learn
11 years 2 months ago #13999
by shando
Reply from Jim Shand was created by shando
Hmmm ... I am thinking it would be nice to have an on line, free, "goal formation tool" available to students. This tool would help individuals find out what their goals should be in order to maximize their chances of success (actually this module will help the student to determine what "success" means for them individually).
Students using this system are going to be self-motivated (else they will be non-users). This means that learning process has to be interesting AND fun. To be interested in something, the student has to understand WHY he/she is learning it. Ideally, it will relate to achievement of their goals in some visceral way.
Students using this system are going to be self-motivated (else they will be non-users). This means that learning process has to be interesting AND fun. To be interested in something, the student has to understand WHY he/she is learning it. Ideally, it will relate to achievement of their goals in some visceral way.
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11 years 2 months ago #21478
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
This is a good idea. Of course we know from Ecclesiasties[1] that there is 'nothing new under the sun'. So it is likely that there is already something out there that is at least a little bit like what you propose. If there is I have not heard of it. I'm just saying don't be surprised. There is a lot of stuff out there that no one has heard of, simply because there is so much other stuff out there.
A lot of kids make it all the way to their Junior year in college before they "declare a major". Perhaps a tool like this would help them? Or cause them to realize that their best path in life did not go through college?
<b>[shando] "Students using this system are going to be self-motivated (else they will be non-users)."</b>
Do you mean they will need to be self motivated to use the tool, or that they will become self motivated by using the tool. Sounds like two different tools. And maybe that is what should be.
<b>[shando] "This means that learning process has to be interesting AND fun. To be interested in something, the student has to understand WHY he/she is learning it. Ideally, it will relate to achievement of their goals in some visceral way."</b>
Another good one. WHY would a kid want to learn ... all the cr*p that schools teach? IMO many kids would not want to learn all of it. At least not right away. But if you could get them started on some project that really lit a fire under them, and let them learn a few of the more advanced things needed to move the project forward ... they will eventually come to a point where they cannot make any more progress until they 'memorize the multilpication tables'. Or some other chore that they have been putting off or a year or two because it did not interest them. At that point, and not before, THAT kid is motivated to do something she had never before been motivated to do.
<ul>But even if this idea for managing a clone of a Hyper School works for some hard-to-reach kids, it won't necessarily work for all of them. There is a need for making the rules such that other people can try other ideas for managing other schools.</ul>If all of the early lessons were available in audio or video formats, it might be possible for a kid to make it to fourth or fifth grade before they finally gave in and learned to read. It would be unusual, but a well designed and well managed Hyper School ought to be able to accomodate such a student. And that student ought to be able to go out into the world, as an adult, and do just fine.
LB
[1] this is part of the Jewish Bible and by inheritance also part of the Christian Old Testament. Maybe not the most reliable source for everything, but for something like this it will do.
A lot of kids make it all the way to their Junior year in college before they "declare a major". Perhaps a tool like this would help them? Or cause them to realize that their best path in life did not go through college?
<b>[shando] "Students using this system are going to be self-motivated (else they will be non-users)."</b>
Do you mean they will need to be self motivated to use the tool, or that they will become self motivated by using the tool. Sounds like two different tools. And maybe that is what should be.
<b>[shando] "This means that learning process has to be interesting AND fun. To be interested in something, the student has to understand WHY he/she is learning it. Ideally, it will relate to achievement of their goals in some visceral way."</b>
Another good one. WHY would a kid want to learn ... all the cr*p that schools teach? IMO many kids would not want to learn all of it. At least not right away. But if you could get them started on some project that really lit a fire under them, and let them learn a few of the more advanced things needed to move the project forward ... they will eventually come to a point where they cannot make any more progress until they 'memorize the multilpication tables'. Or some other chore that they have been putting off or a year or two because it did not interest them. At that point, and not before, THAT kid is motivated to do something she had never before been motivated to do.
<ul>But even if this idea for managing a clone of a Hyper School works for some hard-to-reach kids, it won't necessarily work for all of them. There is a need for making the rules such that other people can try other ideas for managing other schools.</ul>If all of the early lessons were available in audio or video formats, it might be possible for a kid to make it to fourth or fifth grade before they finally gave in and learned to read. It would be unusual, but a well designed and well managed Hyper School ought to be able to accomodate such a student. And that student ought to be able to go out into the world, as an adult, and do just fine.
LB
[1] this is part of the Jewish Bible and by inheritance also part of the Christian Old Testament. Maybe not the most reliable source for everything, but for something like this it will do.
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11 years 2 months ago #24272
by shando
Replied by shando on topic Reply from Jim Shand
RE: [shando] "Students using this system are going to be self-motivated (else they will be non-users)."
[LB] Do you mean they will need to be self motivated to use the tool, or that they will become self motivated by using the tool. Sounds like two different tools. And maybe that is what should be.
By "this system" I meant the hyper-system proposed over in the system design thread.
I was suggesting that a motivation-discovery tool should part of the system design.
So, my thought was, that the students "will become self motivated by using the tool."
[LB] Do you mean they will need to be self motivated to use the tool, or that they will become self motivated by using the tool. Sounds like two different tools. And maybe that is what should be.
By "this system" I meant the hyper-system proposed over in the system design thread.
I was suggesting that a motivation-discovery tool should part of the system design.
So, my thought was, that the students "will become self motivated by using the tool."
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11 years 2 months ago #14001
by shando
Replied by shando on topic Reply from Jim Shand
<b>[LB] ...there is 'nothing new under the sun'. So it is likely that there is already something out there that is at least a little bit like what you propose.</b>
A google search on "career choices tool" brings up a cornucopia of alternatives. I am confident that there exists a suitable candidate for inclusion - or one which could be adapted to te needs of the hyper learning system.
A google search on "career choices tool" brings up a cornucopia of alternatives. I am confident that there exists a suitable candidate for inclusion - or one which could be adapted to te needs of the hyper learning system.
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11 years 2 months ago #14004
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<font color="pink">copied from the parallel discussion on system design</font id="pink">
[shando] "I still think development of self-motivation needs to be an inherent attribute of the system designed."
I'm more or less in agreement with this. As this discussion has evolved it is becoming clear that we are really talking about two things when we use the word motivation. First, what is it (inside a person) that might motivate a specific kid to learn in general or to learn about a specific subject? Second, what sort of tool or service or protocol (or whatever) might be used to make use of a kid's existing motivation - or alternately to generate motivation where none now exists?
The motivation subtopic now looks to more suited for discussing the first and the system design subtopic looks better for the second.
LB
<font color="pink">So,
move back to system design for discussion about the attempt to create and or use motivation especially with tools or services,
and continue here for discussion about the attempt to understand motivation.</font id="pink">
[shando] "I still think development of self-motivation needs to be an inherent attribute of the system designed."
I'm more or less in agreement with this. As this discussion has evolved it is becoming clear that we are really talking about two things when we use the word motivation. First, what is it (inside a person) that might motivate a specific kid to learn in general or to learn about a specific subject? Second, what sort of tool or service or protocol (or whatever) might be used to make use of a kid's existing motivation - or alternately to generate motivation where none now exists?
The motivation subtopic now looks to more suited for discussing the first and the system design subtopic looks better for the second.
LB
<font color="pink">So,
move back to system design for discussion about the attempt to create and or use motivation especially with tools or services,
and continue here for discussion about the attempt to understand motivation.</font id="pink">
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11 years 2 months ago #21568
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
Sorry for Chinese Fire Drill. I'm making up a lot of this as I go, so there will probably more side-stepping and back tracking as we dig deeper.
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